Thanks for these thoughts. I am traveling currently, so I will be brief.

First, the idea of generating robot overlords does not sound like the wisest possible course of action to me. I also am quite skeptical of that.

The UTOK strongly suggests that what we are looking at is a merger of the Culture Person plane with the emergence of a Digital-Virtual-Social-Technological interface. That is, the new phase will be much more about human-Digital cyborgs and fusions across multiple landscapes. 

This will be a time of incredible change. Moreover, the strong conclusion from the metacrisis is that more technological-instrumental power without wisdom in understanding humanity, nature and our place in the cosmos is very likely going to accelerate the Titanic toward the iceberg. It is clear that digital tech will continue to evolve, as that is the nature of complexification and human drives for more power and efficiency. The key, IMO, is whether we can actually wake up and consciously evolve toward cultivating wisdom energy rather than instrumental power.

Best,
Gregg 

 
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Gregg Henriques, Ph.D.
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From: tree of knowledge system discussion <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of James Gien Wong <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2021 11:45 AM
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: TOK This article seems to point to a confusion of interlevel causation
 
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That almost sounds like human-designed, machine eugenics where machines that we have taught make predictions of optimal human behavior and the genes that lead to those behaviors. Yet humans have demonstrated time and time again that our limited knowledge of the universe consistently results in unintended consequences, progress traps. And as we increase the firepower of our technological prowess, we also increase the impact of our progress traps (witness climate change induced by burning fossil fuels - an unintended consequence of internal combustion engines). If AI is predicated on models of imperfect human intelligence, they will naturally inherit all our cognitive limitations. The wisdom of giving AI too much control when their machine intelligence is predicated on imperfect human knowledge is not a comforting thought.





On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 2:44 PM James Lyons-Weiler <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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Well put, Gregg.

What does TOK say about future SuperAI - generated concepts and methods
that lead to genetic manipulation of humans?

In my analysis, since SuperAI is ultimately our creation, it might appear to be endogenous.

However, once is starts autonomously developing rules, laws, concepts,
languages, and imposing those construct on humanity, or rewriting our genetics
to make us fit its needs,  from the perspective of the integrity of our species, it becomes 
and exogenous force (threat).

And if we join a Super-AI as Musk suggests, the schism in humanity will pale
in comparison to any in the past.

The reality of other, non-human intelligence should but fit into U-ToK if it can be.

Do the UToK descriptors "justifications" fit into an entire SuperAI -generated conceptual framework?

Or is UToK relevant to human consciousness alone?


On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 6:12 AM Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Hi James,

 Thanks. I agree with you fully about interlevel causation. This is something UTOK tries to help folks get clear about. Indeed, in the UTOK’s taxonomy of science given by the ToK into Periodic Table of Behavior (attached), your analogy is good, but not quite what UTOK gives. Rather, it is cells (floor 5) that are Life’s equivalent of atoms (floor 2) at the Matter level. The reason is that both cells and atoms are primary units of organization. Genes are the fundamental “digits of biological information” and correspond to Floor 4, and are akin to subatomic particles (floor 1).

 

Not sure if you saw that Lee B. posted this article earlier. My reply was:

 

“If anyone believes either that “genetics determines all/there are one-to-one gene-behavior relations” OR that “genetics have nothing to do with our talents, dispositions, or proclivities,” then they simply are not educated in the science of (mental) behavior.”

 

Both atoms and genes are justifications/constructions, so long as that is the referent point we mean in the semiotic triangle (i.e., our human constructions versus the referent). Of course, they are also both scientific ontological concepts that refer to things in the ontic reality (i.e., they are not just justifications/constructions, which is what something like a fictitious novel is).

 

I fully agree with you about knowledge helping us to depolarize society, I welcome any opportunity to help people start on a journey of awakening to the truth. Moralizing about genetics, either as entities that determine human behavior or as inevitably dangerous concepts that lead us to Nazism are not pathways to the truth.


Best,
Gregg

 

 

From: tree of knowledge system discussion <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of James Gien Wong
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2021 4:48 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: This article seems to point to a confusion of interlevel causation

 

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Obviously a very touchy subject...

 

 

The thought that occurred to me, from this forum’s perspective is that genes are the biological equivalent of atoms for the physical universe - genes are the reductionist atoms for the biological universe. Just as it is quite difficult to generalize causality arguments of quantum effects observed at subatomic scales to ones at human/ macroscopic scale, it is difficult to generalize  observations at the bio-molecular level to the human psychological level. 

 

Perhaps a ToK framing of the problem can enlighten both polarized sides of this contentious argument? 

 

Both atoms and genes are the result of constructed, scientific human narratives. It seems to me that the psychological unpacking of how we humans construct stories is critical for our collective survival at this time. From climate change to vaccines to behavior genetics, it’s our constructed and divergent storytelling that lay at the center of the storm. A deep understanding of how we emerge and use language to construct our stories seems highly salient to depolarizing society.

--

Wishing you WELLth

Gien

Future Ancestor

 

Pull a thread here and you’ll find it’s attached to the rest of the world. - Nadeem Aslam

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