I wasn't proselytizing for vegetarianism, and I don't condemn others for eating meat, and would (and do) eat meat in certain circumstances.  My point was just that, in my view, there was already enough evidence 30 years ago for making an informed (though non-dogmatic) choice on the matter, regarding whether animals deserve humane and life-preserving treatment wherever possible.

On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 8:45 AM ryanrc111 <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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let us not forget that crabs, lobsters, and octopi do NOT show their prey mercy. 

On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 11:43 AM ryanrc111 <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
I don't immediately leap to full vegetarianism as the moral response (although I spent the majority of my adult life as a pescatarian that sometimes cheats). Its a long conversation, but suffice it to say that humans evolved as omnivores, whose bodies are well adapted to hunting, and who would not fare well in the WILD, pre-civilization, without hunting skills and self defense skills. Obviously, we had more reverence for life before we invented war and mass domestication of animals, but I digress..... 

What I wholeheartedly endorse is the ethical treatment of animals, such as the article mentions: giving them a GOOD LIFE and ending their lives with minimal pain. If we have the ability to minimize suffering, we should. For example, shocking a lobster before boiling them is just "good form" and respectful. Live boiling is a horrific concept. Similarly speaking, mutilating shrimp so they breed faster, or crab claws, is a symptom of a cause: removing animals from low stress ecosystems and placing them into extremely high stress conditions.

The best omnivore solution, for the time being, is to assure that we simulate natural conditions for the animals, of course; and, that we give our respect to the most sentient species DURING LIFE. 

I am not a believer in the "general fear of violence", as if extreme pacifism actually makes the universe a better place. Our planet was not designed for extreme pacifism: that is a purely human invention. Our planet involves all the plants and animals eating each other, and balancing symbiosis with predation. Extreme pacifism is NOT a balanced scenario (a vegan planet)  is the most extreme kind of eco-engineering ever attempted on Earth... and although humans are the "steward species" of the planet, in theory, there is a lot of hubris in thinking that radically engineering Gaia for extreme pacifism was the "goal". 

On the contrary, the acceptance of death is part of HUMILITY, and its the form of humility that most people struggle with today, but did not struggle with in long ago generations. WE have lost humility and have entered an era where we think we have the right and ability to re-engineer the entire planet into a "Safe space for all species" rather than a "natural selection symphony" - and that has got to have negative consequences.   
 
Robert


On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 11:05 AM Bruce Alderman <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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I think this is welcome news.  But I wonder if there was anything really new disclosed through this "study."  It seems like a formal gesture just to put an official "stamp" on something we already knew (or should have already known, for decades now), but maybe for various reasons just have been unwilling to generally acknowledge.

(I became a vegetarian over 34 years ago based on several factors:  1) the inhumane conditions of mass animal production; 2) the environmental impact of some of these modes of production; and 3) the current knowledge at that time of the sentient status of many animals and sea creatures).

On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 6:51 AM Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Folks might find this statement interesting on animal sentience:

https://gizmodo.com/octopuses-crabs-and-lobsters-are-sentient-beings-say-1848105287

 

Best,

G

 

___________________________________________

Gregg Henriques, Ph.D.
Professor
Department of Graduate Psychology
216 Johnston Hall
MSC 7401
James Madison University
Harrisonburg, VA 22807
(540) 568-7857 (phone)
(540) 568-4747 (fax)


Be that which enhances dignity and well-being with integrity.

Check out the Unified Theory Of Knowledge homepage at:

https://www.unifiedtheoryofknowledge.org/

 

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