Don't let me stop anyone who is a late adopter of technology or over 40 from doing things the old way just to get going. 

the majority of the people who are talking about these theories and concepts are middle aged. It's a much smaller number of late millennials 

 However again if you actually want to get the attention of the next generations you've got to speak to them on their own turf.. in their own language with future technology and with an understanding of what the next 10 years is going to bring ...not what the last 10 years has brought us

 The reason why teach future technology is because it's actually what my students want to work with and believe it or not it's possible to be an entrepreneur as a psychologist door is a social organizer today... not 10 years from now... in building such a space.

Oculus Quest 2 costs $299 and is it's own computer. Self supporting basically, if you have a  mobile phone. 

 I'm trying to explain to that millennials and gen z are already in .....it's over.... it's a done deal it's not even a conversation to be had....

 The largest corporations the world has ever seen are already all in on VR.

All major institutions will be making vr switches in the next several years

When I was applying during the pandemic for some consulting work with McKinsey the only thing they really wanted to talk to talk about was this switch of technology

I can tell who had and who has not seen the current Oculus VR environment by the doubting questions they ask 

Therapy is going to be VR dominant by 2030 

Education 

Healthcare teleservices 

Marketing and advertising 

Meetings (zoom will be VR dominant  in a couple years ) 

Collaboration....

It's already the financial commitment of the entire world system to do this. 

We can have intellectual debates about the downsides but that's not going to stop the inevitable transition to a vr dominant media 

If you really use doubt it, go try the latest VR and then get back to me with your doubts after you've seen it. 😉 we shall see then how you feel about building on declining tech instead of present technology 

I would make the analogy of someone developing a massive new website for ridesgarung thst wasn't mobile ready right before uber launched theirs on a mobile app. 

 Developing VR is much easier than you think,  As long as you avoid photo realism and focus on things that are a little bit more cartoonish and template based right now.

Thanks 

Robert 

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Dear all, 

 

not to throw the shade on VR but could you elaborate why it „must“ be VR?

 

I think VR makes sense from a Zuckerbergian perspective because it can be sold as an innovation that is worth shelling out more money for and justifies continued high stock prices because "the future is going to be so much better“TM. However, if we are talking about how to meaningfully affect the live of humans and how to improve the human condition, I think one would need to address a lot of potential challenges regarding VR.

 

* VR is much more expensive in terms of compute and, thus, necessary resources than more traditional digital solutions. Even today reliable energy and internet access is a tough challenge for many developing nations. Shouldn’t this influence how much we bet on VR compared to older technologies?

 

* A metaverse is different beast compared to basic internet infrastructure like an internet or blockchain protocol. Centralization around walled gardens managed by big corporations seems to be a likely result. Who is responsible for managing the necessary code base and infrastructure?

 

* Even if we get the metaverse protocol done and rolled out (maybe in 10 years or so), we would still have not answered the question of what the people should actually do. All the difficult moral and developmental challenges remain. I am not sure that a more immersive experience is the actual challenge we have here. How does VR help us advance on substantive issues such as how to resolve value conflicts? How does it help us change institutions and affect real world change? 

 

I think VR could be promising but it is far from clear what role it will play or if it will be a net-positive for humanity. Just wanted to provide some food for thought to steer the discussion into a more nuanced direction.

 

Cheers, Alex

 

—

 

Alexander Herwix

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Am 08.11.2021 um 16:34 schrieb ryanrc111 <[log in to unmask]>:

 

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Alex, 

 

please tell more. 

Also, let me speak in the positive:
My belief is that it needs to be on VR. It must be an immersive sort of experience. 

kind of like journeying to a Kung Fu Temple, a far off beautiful place where masters of their crafts curate creative, restorative, therapeutic, and educational activities 

But anyone can visit whenever they need to

The masters use immersive means of teaching, not unlike Jedi or Kung Fu trials
And around this center of activity would be an outer "civium", to use the language of Jordan Hall, that is more chaotic, expansive, and market-like, but still bounded by a virtual commons. 

(Apps like this are already in development, and I've played a few fitness apps that are barking up this tree-- this is the NEAR FUTURE)

And if the Rebelverse wants to create its "jedilike" world community, it will be in VR, using a constellation of apps. 

I already discussed this at full length with Marshall Aeon, but he is still on the web and mobile based level of trying to code it in 20 year old software. 
Similarly, Richard Bartleet of Enspiral is probably coming around to this VR centric approach although I havent interacted with him in a couple of years. 
I am telling him the obvious: we need to partner with younger people who want to develop AR/VR, and create solutions as an eco community. 

My goal with Michel Bauwens (although he doest know all my detailed ideas yet) is to Create a Commons U as a radical new knowledge platform that trains common-centric workforces and lifeforces. .... I think it must be a VR -centered  Common University that teaches us to view the world as a whole and also how to curate a commons-centric, but culturally, politically, economically, and academally plural knowledge ecosystem around it. For those who dont know Michel is not only one of the leaders of ELinor Ostrom's ideas about commons-based organization to cure environmental problems, but he also built the website for his P2P Foundation where the original Satoshi Nakamoto bitcoin code was first released anonymously (and his website has been visited 100 million times). He's worked for the nation of ecuador and for ceveral cities including Ghenty belgiuum and Barcelona for  the revisioning of the world as a commons based society.  

So I have TONS of detailed ideas about this - and how VR is really the center of this, and why MArk Zuckerberg's play to control the Metaverse is not surprising and also the exact OPPOSITE of what Michel and I want to create. Its yet another narcissistic ad hoc consumer-thrilss paradise, and yet we can invert that into an alternative VR metaverse. 


Let me add that I am teaching a new course next spring on Video games, virtual worlds, and AR.VR entrepreneurship at my university. 

The students in my course will be envisioning projects to launch at Clayton State University and other universities as SOCIAL entrepreneurs of this tech. 

I am also developing a conference in Bhutan next year for international sustainable entrepreneurship, and one of the ideas is to make Bhutan a virtual meeting place for the world commons movement, sort of like how Brussels Belgium is for the EU. I will be trying to link that country back to my university for an ongoing relationships and to bring bhutanese students and entrepreneurs to the USA to get masters degrees at CLayton State, while bringing my students to Bhutan for their masters study abroad. 

I am also connected to noisebridge hackerspace, the #1 hackerspace in the USA through my partner in crime Naomi Most.

I am also connected to the original homebase for the Doge movement, Decentral Vancouver, through my buddy Cameron John Gray, the world's first bitcoin ATM attendant and #DogeProphet4U. CAmreon is one of the most connected people in the world for the underground side of crypto as a technology for GOOD not greed... we are in discussions about our technology options for the future, and he has worked with many experimental hackers who are at the bleeding edge of crypto experimentation, 

I am weaving together a web of connections, folks :)

Let's see where it goes. 

lots to discuss, and things are moving fast

Oh yeah, I'm trying to get my first two papers about world systems theory 3.0 under review by january and have a 4 person team helping with this (hopefully it goes smoothly). 

WST 3.0 helps us to understand the continuity of our human history from the dawn of civilization to present, and why the digital commons (metaverse) and environmental commons (ecoverse) need a new Brahmin-like social class of commons curators who manage the ontology of everything, like the Library of Alexandria was intended to do. 

Until next time, stay cool friends

Gonzo Ethicist

 

On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 8:18 AM ryanrc111 <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Brandon,

 

I tried to convince Marshall Aen join me in seasoning a metaplatform for integral such several years ago. 

 

He said it was was great idea but years off from his ability or his knowledge of anyone else who would be able to keep up with such a concept 

I have since met multiple people who all proposed metaplatforms for this social space including Marcus Gabler. 

 

I even am talking to a Bhutanese entrepreneur who thinks he has all practical solution for global integration of sustainability and cultural progress called Global village Connections. 

 

But oooe everyone else his ideas are either too pure and elaborate and half baked or else too narrow and eccentric and assuming dome magic angel investors for all the real work for him

 

 

 We actually have several people who have the personal qualities to lead such organizations which includes Jordan hall Daniel schmoachtenberger and myself.... 

 

 However I'm beginning to think that NONE OF THE ABOVE  have the vision because there's too much disagrement on what people are actually looking for. 

 

 Pretty much everyone can equally complain about the world as it is but when pressed to actually change it they all are going in a 1000 different directions and not collaborating effectively 

 

This is why every once in a while some powerful entity that's good at organization tells all of these various cats that they need to start behaving like dogs. And as soon as you try to change cats and dogs most of the cats wander off.

 

And then your left with the age old problem of prometheans versus mercurians. The prometheans come up with the ideas but they're absolutely useless in terms of execution. Mercurians are wonderful of execution but they have to pretty much radically dilute the meaning originality originality and ambition of the projects.

 

It's an angel's story and it's a big part of all of my work I published a paper on it and one of my dissertation papers was on this topic....

 

 

Good luck to us all

 

Until the cats can be dogs, they can't create sustainable social relationships.  

 

 As I keep saying I have a very fond opinion of all of the people and all of the early ideas across these social spaces but I have found 0 solutions that I can say:  Hey this looks like something that deserves to be scaled up massively AND will make sense to the mainstream of society.  

 

Robert 

 

 

 

On Mon, Nov 8, 2021, 2:36 AM Brandon Norgaard <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

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Gregg asked about this during our Emerge Gathering debrief meeting but I didn’t have time to give a full response.  There are quite a number of organizations, cooperatives, websites, email lists, Mighty Networks, Discords that are adjacent or somehow sympathetic.  One common thread is the recognition of the meta-crisis, or some aspect of it (political, economic, public health, educational, environmental, socio-cultural, and meaning).  Layman Pascal envisions a Venn-diagram with 3 partially overlapping circles for the most important intellectual movements: Integral, Metamodern, and GameB.  Some people and organizations might fall within one or two of these, and some all three. 

 

Last summer, a few of us got together to try to figure out how we might leverage technology to understand what people and what organizations have what values, approaches, theories, and goals and what other people and organizations might be able to partner with them to reach those goals.  Who is doing what?  How do we categorize this?  Who is potentially connected to whom?  How good of a job is each organization doing toward their stated goals?

 

I figured we could have a website and app that would provide this information in the form of lists and tables and Venn-diagrams created on the fly.  Lene suggested a directory that people would have to pay a small fee periodically in order to keep their information searchable.  I agreed that would at least answer the question of how to begin to pay for such a system, I also figured it would be more robust and useable if it would automatically and pro-actively mine this data from a variety of sources.  Kåre Wangel and I took this concept to Jim Rutt back in August and he said it would possibly be interesting to consider within his “Big Change Coalition”.  Kåre and I were hoping for an opportunity to present this idea to Rutt’s group (which I think includes the heavy hitters Gregg mentioned).  We haven’t got a response from him yet.  We’re both too busy to work on it ourselves, but we wanted to give the idea for others to run with it and see what they come up with.

 

As a start, Marcus Gabler put together this website and has a directory of many of the organizations https://www.mille-plateaux.com/sensemaking-philosophy although it is not interactive nor queryable and has limited entries right now.  Layman also had a map he showed during his appearances on RW and The Stoa that offered a few examples of organizations and intellectual movements adjacent to Integral Theory https://youtu.be/k6uUAS0wCCo?t=1932

 

I’m not sold on this term “Rebel Alliance”.  It sounds a bit Star Warsy, but this greater movement is likely to have different names that appeal to different people. 

 

Brandon

 

From: theory of knowledge society discussion <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx
Sent: Sunday, November 7, 2021 7:36 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: TOK Some Fun/Interesting Conversations

 

Thanks, Andrew.

 

I completely agree with you that we need this. The topic came up at some point and I recall folks mentioning that some people may have worked on this, but I did not follow up at the time and now the reference escapes me. If others know of this kind of thing, please share.

 

When I built the UTOK website back in the summer of last year, I put up this page on related perspectives, which could be a start, but clearly is missing many possible pieces:

https://www.unifiedtheoryofknowledge.org/content/related-perspectives

 

Best,

G

 

From: theory of knowledge society discussion <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Andrew Robinson
Sent: Sunday, November 7, 2021 9:50 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: TOK Some Fun/Interesting Conversations

 

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Hey Gregg,

 

Thanks for sending this. Does anyone know if someone has put together a “map of the Rebel Alliance” with key contributors and their specialties as well as resource links for websites/podcasts/ etc.? It would be great for newcomers that may have been behind a discourse boundary to see the various communities instead of having to slowly discover them one by one.

 

Andrew Robinson Partner PMP, CCNA, PMI‑ACP Invision Technologies, LLC t: 229.446.2004  |  e: [log in to unmask]

From: theory of knowledge society discussion <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx
Sent: Sunday, November 7, 2021 7:42 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: TOK Some Fun/Interesting Conversations

 

Hi Folks,

 

  Last week I had a ton of interesting conversations. I had the good fortune to connect with both Bonnitta Roy and Forrest Landry. Both are “heavy hitters” when it comes to this Metamodern/Game B/IDW/UTOK/Stoa/Rebel Wisdom/Integral world. From my vantage point, I felt able to readily “sync up” with both Bonnitta and Forrest and I am looking forward to continued conversations with them both. I also spoke with Michel Bauwens from the P2P Foundation, which will be coming out on Monday, and had a great conversation with Layman Pascal on UTOK’s frame for psychopathology, which will be released soon.  

 

I also hooked up with Jordan Hall, here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oqxuac_zXY

 

We covered a ton of ground, characterizing the above collection the “Rebel Alliance” in relationship to the techno-trans-humanist Facebook/Musk/Kurzweil metaverse-tech. We need a metapsych-tech that grounds us in the world rather than turning everyone/thing into digital AI. We frame our current cultural/metamodern sensibility as a “coherent integrated pluralism” as opposed to the chaotic fragmented pluralism of the modern-postmodern confusion.

 

I also hooked up with Paul Vanderklay, here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra2NpY5EZUE&t=18s

Titled “A Scientifically Informed Religion After New-Atheism” it follows up on Paul’s conversation with John Vervaeke on the difference and relation between nontheism, classical theism, and common theism.

 

My felt sense here is that there is  a hopeful, realistic vision of an emerging sensibility that allows us to resolve the Enlightenment Gap and obtain the proper relations between mind and matter and move from the modern-postmodern chaotic fragmented muddle in coherent integrated pluralistic vision that affords the widespread cultivation of wisdom energy.

 

Best,
Gregg

___________________________________________

Gregg Henriques, Ph.D.
Professor
Department of Graduate Psychology
216 Johnston Hall
MSC 7401
James Madison University
Harrisonburg, VA 22807
(540) 568-7857 (phone)
(540) 568-4747 (fax)

Be that which enhances dignity and well-being with integrity.

Check out the Unified Theory Of Knowledge homepage at:

https://www.unifiedtheoryofknowledge.org/

 

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