I embarrassingly recognised this after posting. I sort of threw in that opening to get it noticed and the flippancy didn't really work. I need to read up more about game B. As I noted that animation is the only information I have on game B to date. It will obviously be more nuanced than the animation, but I am left feeling very confused. Nora and the others involved are people I have held in very high esteem for a long time. I had an amazing evening with her in Stockholm several years back I treasure as a life highlight and I am struggling to match the quality of thinking I expect from those people that with what seems like missing some pretty straight forward factors. I am always open to seeing how the real problem is my lack of ability to grasp the complexity of the situation. I would be very open to explore how I might be misrepresenting or straw manning. Best regards Victor On 20/01/2022 8:53 am, Brandon Norgaard wrote: > *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click > links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the > content is safe. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Victor, cute that you repurposed Nora’s phrase in your message there. > Did you notice she is one of the co-producers of the video? I doubt > she would agree that the video is BS or colonial as hell. I suppose > there might be some merit to the rest of your critique, but I do think > you’re misrepresenting and kind of straw-manning the messages. > > *From:* theory of knowledge society discussion > <[log in to unmask]> *On Behalf Of *Victor MacGill > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:48 AM > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* TOK An Initiation to Game~B > > *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click > links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the > content is safe. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > HI All, > > I finally got around to look at the video. > > It BS always was > > and its Colonial as hell. > > I haven't looked at Game B before. I think there is something about it > that felt like a new label stuck on same old stuff and I put off > reading about it. All I know about Game B is what was on the video., > so if that misrepresents Game B then I got it wrong. > > The video buys into the old story of everything started out perfect > and wonderful. Everyone co-operated and lived in harmony, then evil > came - the parasite entered and turned humanity's heart to greed and > hate and competition, but we can change it, get rid of the evil and > live in a new co-operating utopia. This is Riane Eisler's Kurgan > hordes who came and destroyed everything that had been so perfect and > we can create a new partnership way. > > The parasite is in the story from the beginning. It is baked into the > pie never to be separated from it again. The serpent was always in the > Garden of Eden, just not activated. The honeymoon is always great, > that nice time when we can pretend everything is wonderful but > everything that unfolds comes from what is already present in the > honeymoon. > > As a living system or an organisation is born and grows difference is > low, requisite variety is low, opportunity is high. It is easy for the > organism to grow, My men's group has 8 people in it. We can all sit > and talk through anything that comes up. We have time to listen to > everyone and come to a consensus. It all feels easy, but if there were > 200 people in the group we could not do it. As difference and > requisite variety grows opportunity increases, but so too does > conflict - difference to be resolved. Conflict is an opportunity, but > when the conflict is not resolved in positive ways, it leads to abuse > and violence. > > Exponential growth cannot continue forever, there will always be > constraining factors that pull it back. Increased difference also > creates increased inequality to be resolved and whatever entropy a > living system cannot contain and bring to order it dumps on others - > and the other in itself. > > For as long as we create a dualistic spilt good-evil, > co-operate-compete, autonomy-connectivity, we perpetuate all the old > myths that perpetuate the colonial dream of getting rid of evil to > create utopia and its all about the evil over there rather than I have > seen the enemy and he is us. > > Our capacity for violence comes from our ape ancestors. It's how they > survived all those millennia. It was never not there. This is actually > the core thesis of the book I put into this group a few days back. And > thank you because the Game B video has clarified my understanding of > my thesis so I can now rewrite it to be much stronger. > > These ideas are nothing new. Nietzsche, Jung, Thich Nhat Hanh, the > Buddha, the list goes on an on of people who have realised the > potential for evil and violence is in everyone of us. We all have the > capacity on a bad day of being evil, vicious bastards. We have to > embrace the shadow, learn to live with all the drives and urges within > rather than trying to separate them off and get rid of them. > > That requires a brutal honesty that is extremely uncomfortable. It is > so much easier to say "I am right, you are wrong. You are the > problem". Of course I am as bad as anyone. My work is in family > violence, so I see it everyday and I see it in myself everyday. > > We need better stories. > > Regards > > Victor > > On 19/01/2022 10:04 am, Alexis Kenny wrote: > > *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click > links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know > the content is safe. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > All, > > Gregg, I was definitely holding the ToK System in mind while > watching this video (noting the places where ToK delineations and > specifications would be helpful and necessary). > > SW, I think you're spot on in naming the issues of interest / > accessibility / broad engagement that can be a part of Gregg's > work. To his credit (as you note), he's super open to generating > content beyond the abstract and is definitely moving more towards > day-to-day applicability in his more recent projects. I would be > REALLY interested to hear your thoughts on this as an artist, as > well as the opinions of other artists and musicians out there (Ken > and Greg and more). So...don't crawl back into your cave just yet! > > Warmly, > > Ali > > El mar, 18 ene 2022 a la(s) 13:56, Metamodern Magick > ([log in to unmask]) escribió: > > *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not > click links or open attachments unless you recognize the > sender and know the content is safe. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > I just watched this. It's fantastic. > > My initial thoughts, of course, are centered around the power > of mythology/gamification/symbolism to convey a message. My > sense is we are going to need more stuff like this if > "liminal" culture is to go from a relatively niche community > on the internet to a full-blown cultural revolution. I have > plenty of ideas on how to do this as a (theory and ritual) > artist, but the trickiest thing, I suppose, is reforming the > academic and mental health paradigms to incorporate this. > > Or maybe it isn't so tricky after all. Gregg's system does a > wonderful job of utilising mythos as a way of demonstrating > the relationship between different elements in his system. I'm > curious on best practices for incorporating that mythos into > less intellectually-inclined spaces. Art seems to be the way > to go, but in terms of specifics...hmmm. > > Anyway. > > Also, this is my first time replying to a TOK Society email! > Hello everyone! I'll be crawling back into my cave now. > > sw > > On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 3:45 PM Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx > <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > I really enjoyed this production. > > And, folks, UTOK does have a place in this. We need some > new kinds of knowledge-psycho technologies to get us from > Game A to Game ~B, and there is much gold to be mined from > UTOK to frame this. > > > Best, > Gregg > > *From:* theory of knowledge society discussion > <[log in to unmask]> *On Behalf Of *Chance > McDermott > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 3:14 PM > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* Re: TOK An Initiation to Game~B > > *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do > not click links or open attachments unless you recognize > the sender and know the content is safe. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Christian, > > Loving this art style that captures the imagination and > inspiration of indie games. > > On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 11:32 AM Alexis Kenny > <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. > Do not click links or open attachments unless you > recognize the sender and know the content is safe. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Christian, > > This was pretty rad! Love the animation, accessible > theory/language, and length! > > As always, I'm always looking for more > tangible/concrete directives...maybe the other videos > will provide that kind of information? > > Warmly, > > Ali > > El mar, 18 ene 2022 a la(s) 00:40, Christian Gross > ([log in to unmask]) escribió: > > *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of > JMU. Do not click links or open attachments unless > you recognize the sender and know the content is > safe. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DE-5FcyCuCKQhs&d=DwIDaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=RXVlD-LPzKRIbcK-gattN04KjOgXsxBRiAqpB1Kf4y8&s=_qXs3e8rfhDEmwMEoujoyZSDdaH3zbboScmS8VVxO5o&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DE-5FcyCuCKQhs&d=DwMBaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=wvCKAnnsGvs_qvwXuTSK-wedXj7ksfVElwI4XrYtwhg&s=9YSp0gkfn1QIxq6deTsiZRWKS_As0XW09JU6GFtmETI&e=> > > ############################ > > To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write > to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] > <mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> > or click the following link: > 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unmask] > <mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> > or click the following link: > http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 > <http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1> > > > ############################ > > To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] > <mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> > or click the following link: > http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 > <http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1> > > ############################ > > To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] > <mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> > or click the following link: > http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 > <http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1> > > ############################ > > To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] > <mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> > or click the following link: > http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 > <http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1> > > > -- > > *Alexis (Ali) Kenny*, PsyD, LP > > Staff Psychologist > > /LeaderWise > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.leaderwise.org_ali-2Dkenny&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=8s9v_CUDr9vHKGm4wgW7q8RV0fnITogklKeS9IHzdFk&s=KlaX7WdGW84vRKmIIOvHd7V_hU3sT_2UfEc39r2E-Vw&e=>/ > > email: [log in to unmask] > > phone:406.540.3411 > > site: alexisckenny.wix.com/marriedinmission > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__alexisckenny.wix.com_marriedinmission&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=8s9v_CUDr9vHKGm4wgW7q8RV0fnITogklKeS9IHzdFk&s=b03qfyv9P-iHtgYJXOOYXOE4RkYIgvxhXxVN2RRoni0&e=> > > ############################ > > To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] > <mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> or > click the following link: > http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 > <http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1> > > -- > Victor MacGill PhD > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.victormacgill.com&d=DwIDaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=RXVlD-LPzKRIbcK-gattN04KjOgXsxBRiAqpB1Kf4y8&s=aUpR0ctekAag4BC4tofqzylJrtZGuFrhpBQ_Ng1tKAs&e= <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.victormacgill.com&d=DwMDaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=vhXYWZW4yTDoXWye3M5dsotelqnu76xR1bNP6q3cxUY&s=QwUGmgufZ3BU-QXOSk53j5rcCqodnU4Kc6Mvu-UaCto&e=> > Author of When the Dragon Stirs: Healing our Wounded lives through Fairy Stories, Myths and Legends > and Gonna Lay Down my Sword and Shield: A complexity perspective on human evolution from a Violent Past to a Compassionate Future > > ############################ > > To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] > <mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> or > click the following link: > http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 > <http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1> > > ############################ > > To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] > <mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> or > click the following link: > http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 > <http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1> > -- Victor MacGill PhD https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.victormacgill.com&d=DwIDaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=RXVlD-LPzKRIbcK-gattN04KjOgXsxBRiAqpB1Kf4y8&s=aUpR0ctekAag4BC4tofqzylJrtZGuFrhpBQ_Ng1tKAs&e= Author of When the Dragon Stirs: Healing our Wounded lives through Fairy Stories, Myths and Legends and Gonna Lay Down my Sword and Shield: A complexity perspective on human evolution from a Violent Past to a Compassionate Future ############################ To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1