I embarrassingly recognised this after posting. I sort of threw in that opening to get it noticed and the flippancy didn't really work. I need to read up more about game B. As I noted that animation is the only information I have on game B to date. It will obviously be more nuanced than the animation, but I am left feeling very confused. Nora and the others involved are people I have held in very high esteem for a long time. I had an amazing evening with her in Stockholm several years back I treasure as a life highlight and I am struggling to match the quality of thinking I expect from those people that with what seems like missing some pretty straight forward factors. I am always open to seeing how the real problem is my lack of ability to grasp the complexity of the situation. I would be very open to explore how I might be misrepresenting or straw manning.

Best regards

Victor

On 20/01/2022 8:53 am, Brandon Norgaard wrote:
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Victor, cute that you repurposed Nora’s phrase in your message there.  Did you notice she is one of the co-producers of the video?  I doubt she would agree that the video is BS or colonial as hell.  I suppose there might be some merit to the rest of your critique, but I do think you’re misrepresenting and kind of straw-manning the messages.

 

 

From: theory of knowledge society discussion <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Victor MacGill
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:48 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: TOK An Initiation to Game~B

 

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HI All,

 I finally got around to look at the video.

 

It BS always was

and its Colonial as hell.

 

I haven't looked at Game B before. I think there is something about it that felt like a new label stuck on same old stuff and I put off reading about it. All I  know about Game B is what was on the video., so if that misrepresents Game B then I got it wrong.

The video buys into the old story of everything started out perfect and wonderful. Everyone co-operated and lived in harmony, then evil came - the parasite entered and turned humanity's heart to greed and hate and competition, but we can change it, get rid of the evil and live in a new co-operating utopia. This is Riane Eisler's Kurgan hordes who came and destroyed everything that had been so perfect and we can create a new partnership way.

The parasite is in the story from the beginning. It is baked into the pie never to be separated from it again. The serpent was always in the Garden of Eden, just not activated. The honeymoon is always great, that nice time when we can pretend everything is wonderful but everything that unfolds comes from what is already present in the honeymoon.

As a living system or an organisation is born and grows difference is low, requisite variety is low, opportunity is high. It is easy for the organism to grow, My men's group has 8 people in it. We can all sit and talk through anything that comes up. We have time to listen to everyone and come to a consensus. It all feels easy, but if there were 200 people in the group we could not do it. As difference and requisite variety grows opportunity increases, but so too does conflict - difference to be resolved. Conflict is an opportunity, but when the conflict is not resolved in positive ways, it leads to abuse and violence.

 Exponential growth cannot continue forever, there will always be constraining factors that pull it back. Increased difference also creates increased inequality to be resolved and whatever entropy a living system cannot contain and bring to order it dumps on others - and the other in itself.

For as long as we create a dualistic spilt good-evil, co-operate-compete, autonomy-connectivity, we perpetuate all the old myths that perpetuate the colonial dream of getting rid of evil to create utopia and its all about the evil over there rather than I have seen the enemy and he is us.

Our capacity for violence comes from our ape ancestors. It's how they survived all those millennia. It was never not there. This is actually the core thesis of the book I put into this group a few days back. And thank you because the Game B video has clarified my understanding of my thesis so I can now rewrite it to be much stronger.

These ideas are nothing new. Nietzsche, Jung, Thich Nhat Hanh, the Buddha, the list goes on an on of people who have realised the potential for evil and violence is in everyone of us. We all have the capacity on a bad day of being evil, vicious bastards. We have to embrace the shadow, learn to live with all the drives and urges within rather than trying to separate them off and get rid of them.

That requires a brutal honesty that is extremely uncomfortable. It is so much easier to say "I am right, you are wrong. You are the problem". Of course I am as bad as anyone. My work is in family violence, so I see it everyday and I see it in myself everyday.

We need better stories.

Regards

 

Victor

 

 

 

 

On 19/01/2022 10:04 am, Alexis Kenny wrote:

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All,

 

Gregg, I was definitely holding the ToK System in mind while watching this video (noting the places where ToK delineations and specifications would be helpful and necessary). 

 

SW, I think you're spot on in naming the issues of interest / accessibility / broad engagement that can be a part of Gregg's work. To his credit (as you note), he's super open to generating content beyond the abstract and is definitely moving more towards day-to-day applicability in his more recent projects. I would be REALLY interested to hear your thoughts on this as an artist, as well as the opinions of other artists and musicians out there (Ken and Greg and more). So...don't crawl back into your cave just yet! 

 

Warmly,

 

Ali

 

El mar, 18 ene 2022 a la(s) 13:56, Metamodern Magick ([log in to unmask]) escribió:

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I just watched this. It's fantastic.

My initial thoughts, of course, are centered around the power of mythology/gamification/symbolism to convey a message. My sense is we are going to need more stuff like this if "liminal" culture is to go from a relatively niche community on the internet to a full-blown cultural revolution. I have plenty of ideas on how to do this as a (theory and ritual) artist, but the trickiest thing, I suppose, is reforming the academic and mental health paradigms to incorporate this.

Or maybe it isn't so tricky after all. Gregg's system does a wonderful job of utilising mythos as a way of demonstrating the relationship between different elements in his system. I'm curious on best practices for incorporating that mythos into less intellectually-inclined spaces. Art seems to be the way to go, but in terms of specifics...hmmm.

Anyway. 

Also, this is my first time replying to a TOK Society email! Hello everyone! I'll be crawling back into my cave now.

sw

 

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 3:45 PM Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

I really enjoyed this production.

 

And, folks, UTOK does have a place in this. We need some new kinds of knowledge-psycho technologies to get us from Game A to Game ~B, and there is much gold to be mined from UTOK to frame this.


Best,
Gregg

 

From: theory of knowledge society discussion <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Chance McDermott
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 3:14 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: TOK An Initiation to Game~B

 

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Christian,

 

Loving this art style that captures the imagination and inspiration of indie games. 

 

 

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 11:32 AM Alexis Kenny <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

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Christian,

 

This was pretty rad! Love the animation, accessible theory/language, and length! 

 

As always, I'm always looking for more tangible/concrete directives...maybe the other videos will provide that kind of information?

 

Warmly,

 

Ali

 

 

 

El mar, 18 ene 2022 a la(s) 00:40, Christian Gross ([log in to unmask]) escribió:

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phone: 406.540.3411

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Alexis (Ali) Kenny, PsyD, LP

Staff Psychologist

phone: 406.540.3411

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-- 
Victor MacGill PhD
http://www.victormacgill.com
Author of When the Dragon Stirs: Healing our Wounded lives through Fairy Stories, Myths and Legends
and Gonna Lay Down my Sword and Shield: A complexity perspective on human evolution from a Violent Past to a Compassionate Future

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-- 
Victor MacGill PhD
http://www.victormacgill.com
Author of When the Dragon Stirs: Healing our Wounded lives through Fairy Stories, Myths and Legends
and Gonna Lay Down my Sword and Shield: A complexity perspective on human evolution from a Violent Past to a Compassionate Future
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