Waldemar and Others:
The authoritarian – authoritative distinction in parenting will be familiar to people who have studied psychology, and particular developmental psychology. It has its origins in Diana Baumrind’s classic work in the 1960s. She made a distinction between authoritarian, permissive and authoritative parenting.
In my view, the best way of representing these distinctions is as follows. There are two broad dimensions: Demandingness (the extent to which the parent has high standards and attempts to direct the child toward those standards); and Responsiveness (the extent to which the parent is responsive to the child’s physical and emotional needs). The pattern looks like this:
|
|
Demandingness |
||
|
Hi |
Lo |
||
|
Responsiveness |
Hi |
Authoritative |
Permissive |
|
Lo |
Authoritarian |
Neglectful |
|
Baumrind produced evidence to suggest that only the authoritative parenting produced children whom could be regarded as “instrumentally competent”. This work has stood the test of time and has been verified over and over in the last 60 years. (Baumrind herself was active in this research until recently, when she died at the age of 91 in 2018. I sure do wish I was able to meet her.)
I think that the distinctions are helpful well beyond parenting contexts, and are applicable to teaching, organizations, and even nations.
On Feb 4, 2022, at 7:09 PM, michael kazanjian <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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Waldemar:
I distinguish between authoritarian and authoritative parenting via the following wording/taxonomy.Authority alone, we can call it authoritarian, child does not count. I actually like using the word "alone" rather than a single word "authoritarian." i call it panarchy.Authoritative parenting is child friendly. This has both authority and the child's dignity. It is not either/or. Cybernetics, from which we derive government.dualism. Authority alone at one time, no authority, only the child at another.No authority. Let the child do as it pleases. Some believe this is form of Montessori. This is the opposite extreme to authority alone
Ergonomics, phenomenology, avoid extremes. That's cybernetics, steering between mere authority, and merely no authority, anarchy.
Best,
Michael M. K.############################On Friday, February 4, 2022, 05:59:10 PM CST, Waldemar Schmidt <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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Michael: how do you distinguish between authoritarian and authoritative parenting?############################
On Feb 4, 2022, at 12:53 PM, michael kazanjian <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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Ken Barish:
I talk about the person-friendly authority, implying the child-friendly authority, in a chapter on management, authority, freedom, in my book, Unified Philosophy, 3rd edition. Your comments, if you get and read the chapter, would be welcome.
There is ergonomics, and my expansion would mean probably forty plus interfaces and subinterfaces.
Michael M. K.
############################On Friday, February 4, 2022, 01:19:02 PM CST, Kenneth Barish <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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Yes, agreed. I never thought of it from the perspective of ergonomics.
The research supports this. Begin with empathy, then teach values. Talk about other peoples’ feelings (not just theirs).############################
On Feb 4, 2022, at 1:30 PM, michael kazanjian <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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Ken Barish:
Being "Old School" need not mean dictatorial. My taxonomy, via ergonomics, is:
Authority Alone....dictatorship, anti childChild-centric, Authority takes account of the child. Authority-child interface, Parent-child interface.dualismChild-centric Alone.....anarchy, spoiling the child.
Michael M. K.
############################On Friday, February 4, 2022, 10:40:21 AM CST, Kenneth Barish <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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Mike and everyone,
I agree with your analysis. In my experience, most parents are trying to find a balance between competing parenting goals (although they usually have a general bias toward either “child – centered” and “old school.”) I’m sure that you are right - that child-centered parenting has become more common over the past hundred years, and especially since the ‘60’s. In her book, Raising America, Ann Hulbert reviewed the parenting advice offered by experts throughout the 20th century. She found, in every generation, a “parent-centered” expert (focusing on obedience to authority) and a “child-centered” expert (who emphasized children’s emotional needs and feelings).
To some extent, this probably reflects William James’ basic distinction between tough-minded and tender-minded personalities or Sylvan Tomkins basic “polarities” of feelings vs. norms. (My son, a historian, found a reference to this parenting controversy in documents from 6th century China.)
But you are right, it is also cultural. If we go back further in American history, in the colonial era, not surprisingly, advice to parents focused on obedience. Life was hard, and children needed to be hardy. Then, beginning in the late 19th century, there was a different philosophy, with an emphasis on developing a spirit of independence in children.
There is a general principle. Parenting is largely determined by an image of our children’s future. Parents want to prepare kids for success in life. As parents, we ask ourselves, explicitly or implicitly, “What are the skills, the qualities of character, and the moral values our children will need to survive and succeed in the world in which they will live?” This principle is true across cultures and across historical eras.
So what do parents feel that children need now, in our increasingly fragmented, knowledge-based, and unequal society, to succeed in life? That’s an easy question - individual achievement and “success in school.” This is our priority, more than service to a community, kindness and generosity, or other values. And, I agree, this imbalance is not good for children.
Just a thought, but maybe the over-indulgence of extreme child-centered parenting and the intense pressure for academic achievement and criticism in affluent communities come from the same source: children must succeed, at all costs, the the exclusion of other values.
I’m ashamed to admit this, but I don’t know Arthur the Aadvark. But I agree with you that his motto is not quite right, for the same reasons.
But some critiques of progressive parenting are ridiculous. A few years ago, an LSU professor wrote that Mr. Rogers was “evil” and had “ruined America.“ Why, because he taught children to believe that they were “special,” and, if you’re special, then why work hard, you’re already special.
I think the answer (and I’m pretty sure we agree about this) is that good parenting is about finding a balance. Kids need to learn that their feelings are important, but so are the needs and feelings of others. Achievement is important, but so is helping others, being a part of a community, and making a contribution to society. They are special (to us), but success is earned, etc.
Thanks again for your thoughts.
I’m glad to have this dialogue.
Ken
On Jan 24, 2022, at 10:25 AM, Michael Mascolo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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Dear Kenneth:
Please forgive my delay in responding to your lovely email and query.
I am honored that you read my book, and deeply grateful for your kind comments. Even more so after having lost count of the number of awards that you received for your parenting book. From my vantage point, I feel deeply humbled by your comments.
I have now pondered long and hard on your wonderful question:
I have some questions about your critique of child-centered parenting. I have read and heard many appalling anecdotes of parental indulgence. But, in my 40 years of clinical work with children and families, I have not very often encountered the extreme form of child-centered parenting you describe. I also have not often seen child-centered parenting lead to the negative consequences that you describe - narcissistic entitlement, self-interest over moral purpose, praise seeking rather than long-term self-cultivation, and self-expression over emotional control. I accept Jean Twenge’s data that as a society we have become more narcissistic, but the research reported in The Narcissism Epidemic linking increased narcissism to child-centered parenting is limited. Far more often, I see parents who are angry and critical, and children who are intensely pressured, demoralized, and defiant.
I think that you are right in your statement that I have created an impression that there are many “extreme forms of child-centered parenting” and that these extreme cases are the cause of narcissism, etc. As I reflect on the issue, I think that there are very few “pure types” of parents (or anything for that matter). Any single parent is, perhaps, a loose confederation of different parenting styles and strategies, of which the child-centered approach is but one. I think that modern parents are deeply conflicted, they have multiple and conflicting parental images with which they identify, and they vacillate, I think, among them in different contexts.
(I note that there is a wonderful study of child-centered parents who vacillate between loving and angry interactions. The pattern is that they parent indulges the child, and then, when the child becomes too demanding and noncompliant, the parents become angry despite their intentions!)
In my view, the “child-centered” parent (and the “student-centered” teacher) reflects an ideology about parenting that entered our culture gradually over the past 100 years, and especially since the 1960s. Parents are one of many agents of this cultural ideology, which operates in tandem (and in conflict with) many other cultural ideologies (e.g., children must be accountable; raise children in gender neutral and antiracist ways; love is more important the strictness; strictness is more important than being a friend to your kid, and so forth).
And so, my answer to your question would be something like the following. Child-centered ideology is one of many cultural forms with which parents identity – some more than others. The child-centered ideology is a dominant one among many progressive parents, but it operates along with others within the same parent. Parents are among the agents of communicating the entitlement, narcissism, and so forth of many children – but there are many other agents as well: Teachers, individualist, me-centered ideology, the media, Barney and even the beloved Arthur the Aardvark (Arthur’s motto “Believe in yourself—that’s the place to start” is not quite right, I think. Actually, you need someone else to believe in and support you, I think, before you can internalize the skills and care from having received that support, and then become an increasingly self-confident and competent person.)
Thoughts?
Thanks so much for pushing me.
Mike
Michael F. Mascolo, Ph.D.Academic Director, Compass Program
Professor, Department of Psychology
Merrimack College, North Andover, MA 01845
978.837.3503 (office)
978.979.8745 (cell)
Bridging Political Divides Website: Creating Common Ground
Blog: Values Matter
Journal: Pedagogy and the Human Sciences
Author and Coaching Website: www.michaelmascolo.com
Academia Home Page
Constructivist Meetup Series
Things move, persons act. -- Kenneth Burke
If it's not worth doing, it's not worth doing well. -- Donald Hebb
On Jan 16, 2022, at 5:54 PM, Kenneth Barish <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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Following up the discussion of parenting from last month:
Michael, I just finished reading your excellent parenting book - 8 Keys to Old-School Parenting. I agree with almost all of what you recommend, especially the importance of character, discipline, a growth mindset, empathetic listening, and the importance of problem-solving. Your focus on promoting moral self-cultivation in children is an important contribution, which is not emphasized enough in most parenting books (including my own). I like your statement that "the key to fostering the development of moral character is helping children build a bridge between their self-interests and their concerns for the interests of others.” (From an emotion perspective, we need children to learn that their feelings are valued and important, but so are the needs and feelings of others.)
Your problem solving model is very similar to Greene and Ablon’s Collaborative Problem Solving model. In the Greene and Ablon model, what you call “interests” are called “concerns”; and what you call “positions” are called “pronouncements.” This model is enormously helpful, a game-changer and an entirely new form of dialogue for many families.
I would add to your recommendations: more attention to children’s positive emotions (especially interest, enjoyment, and pride) and more emphasis on the role of interactive play in children’s social and emotional development.
I have some questions about your critique of child-centered parenting. I have read and heard many appalling anecdotes of parental indulgence. But, in my 40 years of clinical work with children and families, I have not very often encountered the extreme form of child-centered parenting you describe. I also have not often seen child-centered parenting lead to the negative consequences that you describe - narcissistic entitlement, self-interest over moral purpose, praise seeking rather than long-term self-cultivation, and self-expression over emotional control. I accept Jean Twenge’s data that as a society we have become more narcissistic, but the research reported in The Narcissism Epidemic linking increased narcissism to child-centered parenting is limited.
Far more often, I see parents who are angry and critical, and children who are intensely pressured, demoralized, and defiant. (See Suniyar Luthar’s report of these trends and evidence of increased anxiety, depression, substance use, and other mental health problems among affluent teens.)So, what am I missing? Is it possible that the increase in narcissism has other causes?
Here is a short blog post that describes my clinical experience and outlines a balance between child-centered and parent-centered models:
Ken Barish
############################
On Dec 10, 2021, at 8:27 AM, Michael Mascolo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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Hi All:
All this talk about parenting has forced me to chip in with this:############################
Here is a book:
8 Keys to Old School Parenting for Modern Day Families.
I wrote this book. It is, I think, a good book. I wrote it to challenge parents who might have a more “child-centered” or “permissive” or “helicopter” bent to question their assumptions about the importance of maintaining high standards in parenting. I chose the title for that purpose.
However, it is the worst title in the history of humankind. People who bought the book thought it was a book that justified slapping your kid behind the head type of parenting.
Instead, it’s about holding children to high standards (the old school) and engaging them in conflict management interactions in order to foster their development (the modern part).
Anyway, I felt left out of the discussion so I decided to add this so I could hear my own voice… :-)
M.
Michael F. Mascolo, Ph.D.Academic Director, Compass Program
Professor, Department of Psychology
Merrimack College, North Andover, MA 01845
978.837.3503 (office)
978.979.8745 (cell)
Bridging Political Divides Website: Creating Common Ground
Blog: Values Matter
Journal: Pedagogy and the Human Sciences
Author and Coaching Website: www.michaelmascolo.com
Academia Home Page
Constructivist Meetup Series
Things move, persons act. -- Kenneth Burke
If it's not worth doing, it's not worth doing well. -- Donald Hebb
On Dec 9, 2021, at 11:09 AM, michael kazanjian <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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Tyler,
Michael, here. I forgot to mention where I grew up would have been ideal even for those winning the Nobel, Pulitzer, or eventually being members of the president's Cabinet. Yes, many would argue that's a stretch. No it's not. I have an MA and have taught college philosophy. The kids with whom I was lucky to grow up became productive citizens. I am proud to say I am from CHA. I do not think of my place as "inner city," but just Chicago.
I would be honored to autograph a hard copy. But if you want a kindle, that's beyond my technological savvy. I have no idea how to autograph one. But here is the link to my book and the publisher.
I can definitely imagine, and would be honored, to give seminars on Person-Person interface, etc. This would include subinterfaces: parenting, police (profiling, Miranda, etc.), medicine, law, teaching, cybernetics/government, corporations, etc.
Michael
############################On Thursday, December 9, 2021, 09:59:04 AM CST, James Tyler Carpenter <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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It’s Tyler, Michael. Sounds like a better outcome than most privileged environments. Happy to reimburse you for an autographed copy, though Kindle would be a more judicious use of space.
Kant vs. Popper and saving institutional injustice would make a great prison seminar, maybe lifers. I’m guessing beyond the reach of current curricului
James Tyler Carpenter, PhD, FAACP
From: theory of knowledge society discussion <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of michael kazanjian <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, December 9, 2021 10:50:16 AM
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Parenting BooksCAUTION: This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.############################
James Carpenter:
My book, especially chapter 7, philosophically reflects my wonderful experiences at CHA or Chicago Public Housing. Chapter 7 raises my experiences there, to a higher degree of generality, just as, for examples, Rawls notes his Theory of Justice raises to a higher degree of abstraction/generality, the thought of Kant?? I only wish every family, every kid, indeed every intellectual, scholar and philosopher grew up where I was lucky to grow up. When we moved out, it was a fantastic community of Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, Italians, Armenians, Greeks, Blacks, Irish, Polish, Germans, Jews, etc.
Michael M. Kazanjian
############################On Thursday, December 9, 2021, 09:43:06 AM CST, James Tyler Carpenter <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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certainly a place to learn about kids, parenting and families
James Tyler Carpenter, PhD, FAACP
From: theory of knowledge society discussion <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of michael kazanjian <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, December 9, 2021 10:35:55 AM
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
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James Carpenter:
Agreed. Volunteering to work with inner city kids can be a major philosophical issue. Having grown up in the inner city, Chicago Public Housing, I can say that the CPH place where I was VERY fortunate to grow up, was a dream utopia for families, kids, anyone. A volunteer would have found that place where I grew up. to be the ideal place for volunteering. There are, admittedly inner cities, and inner cities. Nothing is monolithic.
Michael M. Kazanjian
############################On Thursday, December 9, 2021, 09:28:58 AM CST, James Tyler Carpenter <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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people wrestle with philosophy posing all sorts of questions- volunteer working with inner city kids is one challenging praxis, Michael
James Tyler Carpenter, PhD, FAACP
From: theory of knowledge society discussion <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of michael kazanjian <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, December 9, 2021 10:19:57 AM
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James Tyler Carpenter:
I am sure that people learn from many experiences. One point or question about marriage, I have heard, is whether Catholic priest, being unmarried, have the right to counsel couples who are either married, or wish to marry. That question intrigues me. So, theoretically, no Catholic priest maybe ought counsel a couple who are dating, engaged, married??? Hmmm.
Incidentally, in my childhood, I was frequently taken to Armenian churches. The priests are generally married, but within the hierarchy, the higher ones are not married. I have heard that the parish priest must be married to be a priest. I am not a member of the Armenian Orthodox church, so cannot speak for the current situation.
Michael M. Kazanjian############################On Thursday, December 9, 2021, 09:10:57 AM CST, James Tyler Carpenter <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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he also said he learned as much about himself and life from marriage as analysis
James Tyler Carpenter, PhD, FAACP
From: theory of knowledge society discussion <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of michael kazanjian <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, December 9, 2021 9:15:30 AM
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
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Dear Greg Thomas:
Negative. I am not a parent. I think I know what you will say. Only parents may talk about parenthood?? Sounds like Maslow, I think. Warning about overspecialization, he said he rejected the view that carpenters may touch only wood and only carpenters may touch wood.
Michael
############################On Thursday, December 9, 2021, 07:07:35 AM CST, James Tyler Carpenter <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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James Tyler Carpenter, PhD, FAACP
############################From: theory of knowledge society discussion <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Greg Thomas <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, December 9, 2021 4:36:42 AM
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############################Dear Michael Kazanjian:
Are you a parent?
Greg
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Ken Barish:
Thanks for the kind comments. As I have noted to Ali in a previous email, my book's (Unified Philosophy 3rd edoton) chapter 1 presents a general theory of metaphysics (mereology). It then applies this in chapter 7 for authority, management, freedom, showing a general theory of sociology, psychology, involving person1-person2 interface. Within that interface are subinterfces including those for parenting, government/cybernetics, management as narrowly defined, teaching, religion, testing, and so on. Medical, legal, and other professional interfaces come into play.
Best,
Michael M. Kazanjian
############################On Wednesday, December 8, 2021, 01:08:20 PM CST, Kenneth Barish <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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Michael,
This is an interesting perspective on parenting. I will have to look into it and think about it.
Ken
On Dec 7, 2021, at 3:58 PM, michael kazanjian <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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Ali, Ken, and All:
Chapter 7 of my book, Unified Philosophy: Interdisciplinary Metaphysics, Ethics, and Liberal Arts, 3rd edition, Cognella, is not specifically on parenting. However, it is on management, authority, communications, freedom, applicable to government/cybernetics, parenting, pedagogy, testing, leadership, and communications: person to person relations.
Taxonomically, it involves:mere communications or authority (dictatorship, bad parenting) parent never listens. parent never spending time with child.community based communications, good parenting where the parent listens.no communications, only communications and no listening bad parentingonly community, no communications. mere spending time with the child, no listening.
Best,
Michael M. Kazanjian
############################On Tuesday, December 7, 2021, 02:38:09 PM CST, Kenneth Barish <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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Ali,
I have several additional parenting books to recommend.
The Heart of Parenting by John Gottman, Ph.D. is a classic parenting book that presents Gottman's research on emotion coaching.
Michelle Borba, Ed.D. has written two recent books: Unselfie: Why Empathetic Kids Succeed in Our All-About-Me World and Thrivers: The Surprising Reasons Why Some Kids Struggle and Others Shine.
I would also like to add my own parenting book to the list: Pride and Joy: A Guide to Understanding Your Child’s Emotions and Solving Family Problems.
Ken Barish############################
On Dec 7, 2021, at 2:08 PM, Alexis Kenny <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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All,############################
The APA DIV43 (The Society for Couple and Family Psychology) listserv recently and (informally) generated a list of highly recommended parenting books. I thought I would share here:
- And Baby Makes Three: The Six-Step Plan for Preserving Marital Intimacy and Rekindling Romance After Baby Arrives by John Gottman, PhD & Julie Schwartz Gottman, PhD
- Between Parent and Child by Haim G. Ginott, PhD
- Brain-Based Parenting: The Neuroscience of Caregiving for Healthy Attachment by Daniel A. Hughes and Jonathan Baylin
- Now Say This: The Right Words to Solve Every Parenting Dilemma by Heather Turgeon, MFT & Julie Wright, MFT
- Peaceful Parent, Happy Kids: How to Stop Yelling and Start Connecting by Laura Markham, PhD
- Parenting from the Inside Out by Daniel J. Siegel, MD
- Parenting the New Teen in the Age of Anxiety by John Duffy, PhD
- Positive Discipline by Jane Nelsen, EdD
- Raising a Secure Child by Kent Hoffman, Glenn Cooper, and Bert Powell
- The Attachment Connection: Parenting a Secure and Confident Child Using the Science of Attachment Theory by Ruth P. Newton, PhD and Allan Schore, PhD
- The Boy Who Was Raised By A Dog by Bruce D. Perry, MD, PhD, & Maia Szalavitz The Price of Privilege by Madeline Levine, PhD
- The Gift of Failure: How the Best Parents Learn to Let Go So Their Children Can Succeed by Jessica Lahey
- The Good Enough Child: How to Have an Imperfect Family and Be Perfectly Satisfied by Brad E. Sachs, PhD
- The Good Enough Teen: Raising Adolescents with Love and Acceptance by Brad E. Sachs, PhD
- The Kindness Advantage: Cultivating Compassionate and Connected Children by Dale Atkins, PhD and Amanda Salzhauer, MSW
- 1-2-3 Magic: 3-Step Discipline for Calm, Effective, and Happy Parenting by Thomas W. Phalen, PhD
If folks want to backchannel me (or via the listserv) with more recommendations, that would be lovely!
Warmly,
Ali--
Alexis (Ali) Kenny, PsyD, LPStaff Psychologistphone: 406.540.3411To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1
Kenneth Barish, Ph.D.
Clinical Professor of Psychology in Psychiatry
Weill Cornell Medical College
www.kennethbarish.com
How to Be a Better Child Therapist: An Integrative Model for Therapeutic Change (W. W. Norton, 2018)
Pride and Joy: A Guide to Understanding Your Child's Emotions and Solving Family Problems (Oxford University Press, 2012)
Winner, 2013 International Book Award, Parenting and FamilyWinner, 2013 Eric Hoffer Book Award, Home CategoryFinalist, 2013 USA Best Book Awards, Parenting and Family
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Kenneth Barish, Ph.D.
Clinical Professor of Psychology in Psychiatry
Weill Cornell Medical College
www.kennethbarish.com
280 North Central Avenue
Hartsdale, NY 10530
914-949-0339
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Kenneth Barish, Ph.D.
Clinical Professor of Psychology in Psychiatry
Weill Cornell Medical College
www.kennethbarish.com
280 North Central Avenue
Hartsdale, NY 10530
914-949-0339
Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
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Kenneth Barish, Ph.D.
Clinical Professor of Psychology in Psychiatry
Weill Cornell Medical College
www.kennethbarish.com
280 North Central Avenue
Hartsdale, NY 10530
914-949-0339
Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
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