**Brace for long winded email**


I think I can relate to Lene's frustrations, if I understand them right.

There's no question that those involved on this and similar communities, which are increasingly remote (accelerated by COVID), are some of the best and brightest in doing what we do. That being said, as human beings we are no better or worse than anyone else. The discussions are rich, the theories highly qualified and coherent across disciplines to a degree never seen before as new disciplines exponentially arrive seemingly every day. 

Unfortunately, the wisdom realized in communities like ours have yet to be actualized in the manifest physical world, the one that needs it the most and the one that's dying. 

As a fairly radical Advaitist, I do feel in my core that we dont need to do anything to 'save the world' in terms of a willful course of action. As we have seen across human history, these efforts (e.g., the Enlightenment) have been forced to the point that we miss or ignore inconsistencies that only make our collective human crises far worse in the long run. I dont want to put words in Gregg's mouth, but I believe that's the very insight he had with regards to the Enlightenment gap and the problem of psychology, among other things. 

Rather, anything that we do about these crises is what we do. Not in a manner that suggests predetermined will, but one that suggests that the universe will take care of itself as it always has, for all we know it is a natural end to our species to destroy itself. I dont believe this to be the ultimate case, I have faith that we will surpass this and that the Earth will be saved. Researchers on climate change are definitely not wrong, but like the rest of us they don't know what they don't know, so they betray themselves by distrusting the Earth's ability to heal itself. It takes a certain quality of ego to think that one knows how and is responsible for saving the world. That notion alone shows one to take themselves as separate from the world. 

So I'll continue my usual harping that conceptual answers aren't going to do the work needed to make the changes in the world we wish to see. How many times have we talked about the difficulty of watering down these metaphysically dense discussions such that the average person can understand and be motivated to do something? We've made attempts to do this but even in my own egoic feeling there's a stubbornness that others should take the time to learn all these theories and words and get on board our metaphysical ship. That will never happen. 

Brandon N and others (I don't know who all is involved and to what extent) are in the works of creating a nonprofit organization for much of the work that we do here in our free time (which is especially taxing for those of us working full time, building careers, learning to adult without an assurance of a full life). That is the direction we need to go. We can have brilliant discussions all day long but if the internet and all its data was wiped from existence then the majority of the conceptual results we've attained will be useless in that we have not instantiated their process beyond dialectics. 

Put simply, for all the passion and wisdom and love that everyone here has for the world and others, why aren't we doing something about it at the level something needs to be done? If models are anywhere close to correct then we don't have enough time to save the world by changing the system via proper alignment of truth claims with the social institutions that directly influence the game of life. 

If we are going to do something as a community then it needs to manifest where the need is felt. We need to take it to the streets, grassroots. We need to be making pitches to local politicians. We need to be arranging peaceful protests, we need to be building an infrastructure that can actually support the broken systems that were never going to last to begin with because their foundations are mistakes such as the enlightenment gap.

Again, as an Advaitist, none of this matters to the ground of being itself. It only matters to us, even the Earth itself outside of its self-regulatory processes probably doesn't 'feel' any panic about its own destruction. However, this may be one of those rare moments in human history where we have to proselytize to a larger audience capable of mobilizing on the more fundamental metaphysical notions we discuss. 

Maybe we should be focusing more on what are the 7 +/-2 things we can spread to actualize manifest change in the world. Right now we're just talking about talking, thinking about thinking.

PS
I know many if not most of us are involved in some degree of work at the level I speak of, I'm more suggesting that if we specifically are to make those efforts they should be far more concentrated. 

Regards,

Nicholas G. Lattanzio, Psy.D.

On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, 10:00 PM Rachel Hayden <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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Aydan ~ 

The mapping you are doing there definitely has some intuitive appeal to me, in terms of the masculine "feeling" more focal, therefore linked to the Propositional, and the feminine having the "feeling" of Participatory whole - an embeddedness which can never totally be brought into focal awareness. That would also intuitively tie to the masculine as agentic, and feminine as communal (very simplistic take from an article by Gregg). Relevant to this discussion, Vervaeke and Esther Lightcap Meek recently did a really invigorating video about ways of knowing vs. how all knowing is basically the same in this focal/background sense. 

I don't know Integral well enough to speak on that, but I think that the Procedural shouldn't really be considered much like a cluster of causal factoids - something like learning to ride a bike is just not a factual process in a way that Propositional Knowing is. I also think that the Perspectival as an individual perspective could just as easily map to the masculine in the sense that it could be linked to an individual, agentic purpose like the Hero's Journey (the term "agent-arena" relationship comes to mind here). Maybe that level is non-binary. 😄

Just my two cents.... Like Adriana, I'd be curious to hear more. 

Best,
Rachel  

On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 1:46 PM Aydan Connor <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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Both the Integral Stage and UTOKing conversations with Raven were so alive and intriguing. Thanks for making them! It directly fed into a train of thought I’ve been on about the 4Ps of knowing and the possibility that a lack of Participatory knowing is at the heart of the meta crisis. 

First, does this map make sense? and is this echoed elsewhere?

Feminine<—>Perspectival (singular relational)<—>Participatory (cluster of causal relationships)

Masculine<—>Propositional (singular factoid)<—>Procedural (cluster of causal factoids)

When any of these cyclically looping elements is thrown off course, the others crumble and descend into entropy. 

(Side note: I wonder if contemplative practices are only so powerful as practices tend towards combing at all levels of knowing, and so can assist the practitioner in inhabiting the balance of a co-gendered Non-Duality swimming in a sense of All-Encompassing One-ness.)

I recently joined this Listserv—it has been really amazing to see these emails. 

Thanks Everyone!
Aydan 


On Sun, Feb 27, 2022 at 17:07 Raven Connolly <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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Gregg! Thanks for sharing this, it was such a fun conversation and dove tailed very well with the discussion that we just had on UTOK. 

On Sat, Feb 26, 2022 at 6:54 PM Adriana Forte Naili <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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I’m looking forward to listening to both conversations (Gregg’s and Layman’s) thank you for posting. 



On 26 Feb 2022, at 02:07, Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <[log in to unmask]> wrote:


For episode 18 of THE SEXUALITY SERIES, Layman is joined by bird-woman hybrid, Philosopher Queen and Dark Renaissancer, Raven Connolly, to talk about erotica; working with darker impulses and taboo; bravery to explore, push boundaries, and constructively embrace conflict; the archetype of the Fool; power literacy, and the social manipulation of desire; adult development, sexual maturity, and Raven's own journey towards these things; male-female polarity, and the interplay of the shell and the core; embracing the Void; the moral and social consequences of unhinging sexuality from reproduction, and reproduction from biology; gender roles, and hard and soft power; the repeated refrain in Liminal Web communities of "Where are the women?"; and much more.
 
 
___________________________________________
Gregg Henriques, Ph.D.
President of the Society for the Exploration of Psychotherapy Integration (2022)
Professor
Department of Graduate Psychology
216 Johnston Hall
MSC 7401
James Madison University
Harrisonburg, VA 22807
(540) 568-7857 (phone)
(540) 568-4747 (fax)


Be that which enhances dignity and well-being with integrity.

Check out the Unified Theory Of Knowledge homepage at:
 
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