I appreciate and agree with all of the lovely comments you've each made. What a trip, this thing called life. Regards, Nicholas G. Lattanzio, Psy.D. On Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 9:53 AM Rachel Hayden <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links > or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is > safe. > ------------------------------ > I think so too, Gregg. Part of what I liked so much about you and Nik > talking is that it enriched the interface between "practices" of > non-duality and the mighty metatheoretics of this UTOK thing. Your system > bridges so-called "Eastern" and "Western" in my limited understanding, in a > way that brings needed fresh air to the situation. > > And, at the same time, the fundament of non-duality is not properly placed > within any system. It is not base awareness, in the sense we would normally > use the word. It is realization-faith, "faith" more in the sense of > faithfulness and not belief. It is "not this, not that," and also not not > this, not not that. As many in the past have noted, it cannot be completely > verbalized but only pointed to. It is The Elephant Sun God looking upward > to worship energy-information. It is its own Joint Point. It is the same at > every Plane of Complexification exactly as it changes with each Plane of > Complexification. It is only one Plane chosen at random, and not the > others. And so on... Is-ness, with or without any epistemological agent. > And all the words I've just typed are wrong and misleading, as they will > be. > > But this is not an argument against what you or anyone has said, or a > counterpoint or anything like that. It is merely my incoherent declaration > of faith, and I feel in my body that this attempt will always be necessary, > so I'm muddling through it dimly in the only way that I know how. There is > a deep heart of care which must be attended to. > > Yours truly, > Rachel > > On Sat, Apr 30, 2022 at 7:50 AM Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx < > [log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> Thanks for all the commentary on this podcast with Nik. >> >> >> >> A major point from UTOK is that, following the emergence of modern >> empirical natural science, we developed a fracture in our >> epistemological/ontological landscape, that we need to be able to put >> together. >> >> >> >> I do agree with Nik that there is a way in which the only known certainty >> is the ontic epistemic awareness realizations of “am is”. This is the base >> of pre-conceptual/reflective awareness per se. The in the moment “A” in the >> ESP-A model of consciousness. The reason is that it is a foundational truth >> claim within itself. So, if I am experiencing awareness of a coffee cup or >> a pain in my gut, that is an undeniable moment of ontic epistemic >> realization. If we strip any correspondence truth implication of what it >> “stands for/models/represents” and just go with it as an instance of >> experiential awareness, well it becomes undeniable. How could it not be the >> case that I am not experiencing that which I am experiencing per se. >> >> >> >> The trick is to marry that subjective ontic epistemic foundational point >> of view with the correspondence theory of truth that natural science >> developed. And do so in a way that is consistent with >> relational/intersubjective/transjective truth frames. >> >> >> >> I think UTOK does it. >> >> >> Best, >> G >> >> >> >> *From:* theory of knowledge society discussion < >> [log in to unmask]> *On Behalf Of *William McCartan >> *Sent:* Friday, April 29, 2022 12:44 PM >> *To:* [log in to unmask] >> *Subject:* Re: TOK UTOKing with Nik Lattanzio >> >> >> >> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links >> or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is >> safe. >> ------------------------------ >> >> Good afternoon, Nicholas >> >> >> >> >> >> That was a great podcast between yourself and Gregg, Nicholas, as for >> your train of thought above, it is the one thing that I always say to >> someone questioning themselves because of others, we do not have to justify >> our existence simply because someone questions your history, it is yours. >> >> >> >> As a construction worker, I haven't the educational background, but I do >> understand the nature of each of us respecting one and other. I've had to >> remind one of my sons of this fact when he asked that I confirm his life >> story, to someone questioning it. >> >> >> >> As I said in the utb comments, I hope that you sit down with Gregg again. >> >> >> >> Thank you >> >> >> >> Get Outlook for Android >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_AAb9ysg&d=DwMF-g&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=mPqLV6yAAZlEoqhRXeqo80FFdKx5vXvbPrn5J2JxTyI&s=8kMu0dbehOeh4urdUVaefUj8kQS6nzEFqpcGyP-vPsM&e=> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* theory of knowledge society discussion < >> [log in to unmask]> on behalf of Nicholas Lattanzio < >> [log in to unmask]> >> *Sent:* Friday, April 29, 2022 10:41:29 AM >> *To:* [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> >> *Subject:* Re: TOK UTOKing with Nik Lattanzio >> >> >> >> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links >> or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is >> safe. >> ------------------------------ >> >> As I'm sure Gregg would agree with on the most literal level, which holds >> as the ultimate Advaitist truth claim: The only thing I know FOR SURE is >> that "I AM." All else is suspect to some degree, but the experience of >> existence is undeniable; what it means? I don't know, but from Nondual >> perspectives we need not know and in terms of abstracted empirical claims >> we can't be sure (p=.01/.05). >> >> >> >> Until we know what a thought IS, we must regard them as ephemeral, >> constrained, single-aspect monisms of identity; they are real, but not as >> real as the "That which I AM." >> >> >> Regards, >> >> >> >> Nicholas G. Lattanzio, Psy.D. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 10:46 PM Tim Pickerill <[log in to unmask]> >> wrote: >> >> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links >> or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is >> safe. >> ------------------------------ >> >> UG Krishnamurt, again a simple teaching. In his first recorded talk, with >> David Bohm, asks and asserts what is Truth? That which does not change. >> Interesting. Kinda screws up a lot of narratives… all is illusion >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 10:57 PM Nicholas Lattanzio <[log in to unmask]> >> wrote: >> >> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links >> or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is >> safe. >> ------------------------------ >> >> Absolutely TR, Ram Dass is one of my greatest teachers (and I named my >> cat after him), though he is not of a strictly advaitist (nondual) lineage. >> Ram Dass is moreso an "Eastern Eclectic" as I call it, though his views >> were certainly rooted in nondual teachings, and he would classically refer >> to anything as being "just awareness." The nondual spectrum is wide though, >> and Nondual Empiricism is fundamentally rooted in radical nonduality (as >> exemplified by UG Krishnamurti, Mooji, Papaji, etc.,). I guess I would >> place Ram Dass in the more embodied aspects of NE due to his massive >> influence on the world, so he maybe gets extra credit. And as you say, Be >> Here Now is definitely an NE motto that touches on the radical nondual >> aspect (i.e., you can only ever be here now, even if deluded to believe >> you're somewhere/time else). >> >> >> Regards, >> >> >> >> Nicholas G. Lattanzio, Psy.D. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 2:34 PM Tim Pickerill <[log in to unmask]> >> wrote: >> >> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links >> or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is >> safe. >> ------------------------------ >> >> At some point Ram Das came up, I think his phrase “be here now” can be >> used nicely to frame a metaphysics of non dual presence. >> >> >> >> Be - “to be” action, verb, process, energy, information - presenting >> mind as meaning >> >> Here - place, space, relationship - present in mind >> >> Now - presence of mind >> >> >> >> Mind presenting meaning as creative evolution through relationship with >> Mind. >> >> >> >> Cheers >> >> T >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 9:39 AM Rachel Hayden < >> [log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links >> or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is >> safe. >> ------------------------------ >> >> Thank you Nik and Gregg for this! It was a lovely listen yesterday as I >> synchronistically drove an unusually meandering course through wooded >> backroads, at one point getting slightly lost. >> >> >> >> A Zen anecdote came up for me around 1:20:30, related to points in the >> video about what is actually being "practiced," and how the realization of >> non-duality does not dualistically cut us off from self-cultivation. It >> features one of my favorite old-time teachers, who played paradox like >> Coltrane played the saxophone. It’s probably a bit mangled with 20 years of >> memory, but I'd like to share it: >> >> >> >> An official asked Joshu, “What is it that you practice?” >> >> Joshu said, “I myself do not practice.” >> >> The official said, “How then can you teach non-practitioners like >> myself?” >> >> Joshu said, “If you did not practice, how could you have overcome hunger >> and cold and attained the rank of a high official?” >> >> With tears in his eyes, the official bowed in gratitude. >> >> >> >> Gladly, >> >> Rachel >> >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 8:07 AM Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx < >> [log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> *https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_0cxt4UPqhj8&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=67GXTYNBYOQhwwj1tgtbiHIqUjW3ZCTkXYF6rH3KCFE&s=g2AkViU9yRu5OOvzRiImkQw-S8eNp45D6tdeKzH-EKw&e= >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_0cxt4UPqhj8&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=RJD6Z2lunrfosXAlhbz6HEbMnR0DLdQ8FpeZ7WObFqo&s=OSO_W4OG8MkPzpeD0nbvEz4moKSbmrdcUgoLEolH7S0&e=>* >> >> >> >> *Episode 51: UTOKing with Nicholas Lattanzio >> April 25, 2022* >> >> *Title: Nondual Empiricism* >> >> In Episode 49, Gregg welcomes Nicholas Lattanzio. He is a psychologist >> with long standing interests in integral theory and Eastern philosophical >> traditions. A TOK Society member, he advocates for a "nondual empirical" >> position that he uses to bridge psychotherapy, philosophy and being in the >> world. He has interests and areas of expertise comprising >> existential/spiritual crises, anxiety disorders, substance use disorders, >> personality disorders, psychosis, self-harm, trauma, ADHD, depressive and >> mood disorders, dissociative disorders, and issues related to identity at >> various stages of development In this episode, he shares with Gregg his >> thinking and how nondual empiricism relates to UTOK. >> >> Here >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.podbean.com_media_share_pb-2Djhf2p-2D120cd15&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=RJD6Z2lunrfosXAlhbz6HEbMnR0DLdQ8FpeZ7WObFqo&s=omBS6xtmUTwcuKufmuIH49T26nLU5pvJkJJl_LsuVCk&e=> >> is the episode on podbean. Here >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.linkedin.com_in_nicholas-2Dlattanzio-2D085757190_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=RJD6Z2lunrfosXAlhbz6HEbMnR0DLdQ8FpeZ7WObFqo&s=4UYRkUKZbYDngfgG23JgZwv_YRbICBRTfZ2YXFHq2rA&e=> >> is his linked in page. >> >> >> >> ___________________________________________ >> >> Gregg Henriques, Ph.D. >> President of the Society for the Exploration of Psychotherapy Integration >> (2022) >> >> Professor >> Department of Graduate Psychology >> 216 Johnston Hall >> MSC 7401 >> James Madison University >> Harrisonburg, VA 22807 >> (540) 568-7857 (phone) >> (540) 568-4747 (fax) >> >> >> *Be that which enhances dignity and well-being with integrity.* >> >> Check out the Unified Theory Of Knowledge homepage at: >> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.unifiedtheoryofknowledge.org_&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=67GXTYNBYOQhwwj1tgtbiHIqUjW3ZCTkXYF6rH3KCFE&s=yFvSuslH96ZRfJhG0i2rIL6amEYvII623oxszWAf518&e= >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.unifiedtheoryofknowledge.org_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=RJD6Z2lunrfosXAlhbz6HEbMnR0DLdQ8FpeZ7WObFqo&s=hCtZkRFfWa16JhGI0v6z-wb9z4VkgdwnW9iSZRvTXpc&e=> >> >> >> >> ############################ >> >> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the >> following link: >> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 >> >> ############################ >> >> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the >> following link: >> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Timothy Rollin Pickerill >> >> Writings - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__themysteriousdeepblack.substack.com_&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=67GXTYNBYOQhwwj1tgtbiHIqUjW3ZCTkXYF6rH3KCFE&s=P1_vu_8bx2nOxnbLUP9uUd836eTjlvlv0E7py4XFGxY&e= >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__themysteriousdeepblack.substack.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=l4Qc6s-1FMdmjTjiVSrmJH5bRyLZCD63mhsRioLN120&s=a9FEdALrJZYimorD0COpd-y_dOl0iIAeIibWErhmzu8&e=> >> >> Business - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.AudioVideoArts.com&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=67GXTYNBYOQhwwj1tgtbiHIqUjW3ZCTkXYF6rH3KCFE&s=KrHZ8Z8KTEqmqFWY9IVibQCqazGSPeiigtI3TwjxIow&e= >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.AudioVideoArts.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=l4Qc6s-1FMdmjTjiVSrmJH5bRyLZCD63mhsRioLN120&s=FLYjYWCjdpxJk-RNsp7xKe1fCiz0maa9DbTvRxz8zJs&e=> >> / >> >> Photography - 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https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__themysteriousdeepblack.substack.com_&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=67GXTYNBYOQhwwj1tgtbiHIqUjW3ZCTkXYF6rH3KCFE&s=P1_vu_8bx2nOxnbLUP9uUd836eTjlvlv0E7py4XFGxY&e= >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__themysteriousdeepblack.substack.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=CdkjBeXW5kXZl3Tjo1XqftxBYQE9EiLz8o6dCgItMb0&s=kdzhq03pFQw-r1SZWz8rMLshtBt0Dup3z8DEoVPTH8Q&e=> >> >> Business - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.AudioVideoArts.com&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=67GXTYNBYOQhwwj1tgtbiHIqUjW3ZCTkXYF6rH3KCFE&s=KrHZ8Z8KTEqmqFWY9IVibQCqazGSPeiigtI3TwjxIow&e= >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.AudioVideoArts.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=CdkjBeXW5kXZl3Tjo1XqftxBYQE9EiLz8o6dCgItMb0&s=WXsJ8OsDPiiFS62K25KknyiOW86bfuNemeEi1gidPYI&e=> >> / >> >> Photography - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__instagram.com_pickerillphotography_&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=67GXTYNBYOQhwwj1tgtbiHIqUjW3ZCTkXYF6rH3KCFE&s=nWHaSH6wyP5877Ukjbb4UznraqaQ48AqAsAWh7j-xPw&e= >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__instagram.com_pickerillphotography_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=CdkjBeXW5kXZl3Tjo1XqftxBYQE9EiLz8o6dCgItMb0&s=YLsjBe4VqmON3KkvCwbtHVZXoKQ8NfH9n-dHxqcUFt0&e=> >> >> Music - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__the-2Domen-2Dproject.bandcamp.com_&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=67GXTYNBYOQhwwj1tgtbiHIqUjW3ZCTkXYF6rH3KCFE&s=J_6geYJ0f-lNEURAaL3Uk9FP8Z3gp_HAgp6lfDq0xgE&e= >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__the-2Domen-2Dproject.bandcamp.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=CdkjBeXW5kXZl3Tjo1XqftxBYQE9EiLz8o6dCgItMb0&s=Kesl-UlfX6QiRao4ZHOKFCcflFVdM_36YhKHlt8Xen8&e=> >> >> Art - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.TR-2DPickerill.com_&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=67GXTYNBYOQhwwj1tgtbiHIqUjW3ZCTkXYF6rH3KCFE&s=dVypJQ7bjuU8InqtyoWI6DpvwVoNpVpsPp0Q6qwAj2U&e= >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.TR-2DPickerill.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=CdkjBeXW5kXZl3Tjo1XqftxBYQE9EiLz8o6dCgItMb0&s=7INd2lsGhcVYNAfdxl9HN66OC4R3AXhrfY_0gRIIU5A&e=> >> >> 646-299-4173 (cell) >> >> ############################ >> >> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the >> following link: >> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 >> >> ############################ >> >> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the >> following link: >> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 >> >> ############################ >> >> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the >> following link: >> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 >> ############################ >> >> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the >> following link: >> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 >> > ############################ > > To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the > following link: > http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 > ############################ To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1