Thanks for this, Ali. And this conversation lead to the interesting dialogos and “on line application” of UTOK. Specifically, re the meta traits and the big five, UTOK phylogenetic analysis of human mental behavior posits that we should broadly see the patterns as follows: At the “base animal level” we should see neuroticism and extraversion as negative and positive affect systems, and they should largely correspond to needs for (defensive) stability (i.e., neuroticism) and (exploratory) plasticity (i.e., the positive/environmental engagement of extraversion). At the human level we should see a similar pattern of conscientiousness (stability) and openness (plasticity). However, agreeableness should be somewhat different. It is a social mammal/primate domain. But rather than being the dialectic of stability-plasticity, it is mostly a self-other dimension in terms of style and motivation. This means it is fuzzier when it comes to the pattern that Garri and John are looking for. Look at this dynamic via the lens of the Matrix affords us a guide to how to think about these issues. That is, both self-other and stability-plasticity dynamics are embedded in the Matrix. And the agreeableness dimension is mostly the self-other dimension. So, the prediction is that when we do large scale analyses of variance on the aggregates of data relating agreeableness to the stability dynamic, it should exhibit less alignment with stability than neuroticism or conscientiousness. Best, Gregg From: theory of knowledge society discussion <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Alexis Kenny Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2022 10:28 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: TOK Episode 5 Psyche-pathology CAUTION: This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. ________________________________ All, As someone who works (very part-time) administering psychological assessments (many of them personality trait based) to clients (clergy members), this was helpful in its a concise breakdown of the Big Five and their relevance as described with nuanced depth. Notes below! - The ontology of problems - Transjective as the junction of subjective and objective - Psycho-logy as the general nomenthic and psyche-pathology as the specific idiographic - Integrating without reducing - Efficiency balanced with resiliency = optimal gripping - Universal doesn't mean complete (personality traits do not equal personhood) - Conscientiousness = future is very present = ORDERING GOALS ACROSS TIME - Agreeableness = compassion and politeness = NEEDS (SELF / OTHERS) - Neuroticism = negative emotionality = THREATS - Openness = sensitive to the incentive reward of semantic information (ideas) = NOVELTY ENGAGEMENT - Extraversion = behavioral version of openness = REWARDS - Meta-traits = stability (first three traits) and plasticity (last two) = realizing what's relevant in the world in which one is situated - Recursive Relevance Realization (in Relation) = The 3Rs refer to “recursive relevance realization," and it provides a frame that gives us, to quote Vervaeke and Ferraro, a “theory of how cognition continually redesigns itself to fit the changing world." Warmly, Ali El dom, 27 mar 2022 a la(s) 05:40, Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx ([log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>) escribió: Hi TOKers, Here is the link to episode 5 of Psyche-Pathology and Well-being: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrPvWaUjKgA<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DUrPvWaUjKgA&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=e42EJD5omaNSfUPtz1HjbR-F9QveNosp8s2npHJCti4&s=D-icmVTIRn2oaPjaEEuQSJBZe4jx54Rl50j5RjHk2qM&e=> So far, I think the most interesting thing for me is the clarification of the relationship between psyche-ology and psycho-ology, and how that corresponds directly to the Coin and Tree in UTOK. It is one of the cooler developments in the theory in the last six months or so. Consider it normally is the case that we think of psyche as the old word for and equivalent to mind. Now we can frame this differently, at least via the anchor of psychology to natural science epistemology, which actually “breaks it off” from the center of the psyche. I also think when we pair this balancing between the epistemic inside out subjective view afforded by the psyche and the objective view afforded by scientific psychology with the relational and transjective views given by folks like Mike Mascolo and John Vervaeke, we achieve a much greater, holistic epistemological frame for a coherent ontology. Also, for theory nerds, we are moving into some new territory in episode 5 in a way that is a good “in the moment” test for the conceptual structure of UTOK’s psychology. You will see it if you watch it. It pertains to the nature and relationship between the big five traits and the meta traits of stability and plasticity and discussions about why agreeableness is a slightly different case than the other four, at least in UTOK’s evolutionary functional framing of what the traits actually are about. Best, Gregg ___________________________________________ Gregg Henriques, Ph.D. President of the Society for the Exploration of Psychotherapy Integration (2022) Professor Department of Graduate Psychology 216 Johnston Hall MSC 7401 James Madison University Harrisonburg, VA 22807 (540) 568-7857 (phone) (540) 568-4747 (fax) Be that which enhances dignity and well-being with integrity. Check out the Unified Theory Of Knowledge homepage at: https://www.unifiedtheoryofknowledge.org/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.unifiedtheoryofknowledge.org_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=e42EJD5omaNSfUPtz1HjbR-F9QveNosp8s2npHJCti4&s=-qLcxLxGUhUV-ATgJT-xdr2Ex-8BgKT7t-2ntuObLkw&e=> ############################ To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 -- Alexis (Ali) Kenny, PsyD, LP Staff Psychologist LeaderWise<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.leaderwise.org_ali-2Dkenny&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=e42EJD5omaNSfUPtz1HjbR-F9QveNosp8s2npHJCti4&s=qYTuJlqtfmwzVcbydfOuWSqLfJqnNvVB4agFlY13b9E&e=> email: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> phone: 406.540.3411 site: alexisckenny.wix.com/marriedinmission<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__alexisckenny.wix.com_marriedinmission&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=e42EJD5omaNSfUPtz1HjbR-F9QveNosp8s2npHJCti4&s=NIfnMgLnGnRyDqYu4FpFbLD1myAWWGZmewKSg__DDpI&e=> ############################ To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 ############################ To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1