I agree that by necessity all experiences are actual experiences. Where can we though differentiate between an individual’s “reality” and the reality of observable evidence. In today’s America this is a significant issue as the lines are actively being blurred to manipulate people.
Some is considered delusional when their conscious experience doesn’t jive with the reality that they lived as can be confirmed by observation.
Sent from where I’m being.
> On Sep 21, 2020, at 1:16 PM, James Lyons-Weiler <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
> I think saying "reality is a delusion" is to say that experiencing it is indistinguishable from the experience of delusion.
>
> For example, I personally believe I am the greatest scientist who ever lived, and if only society would finally wake
> up and hear the voices in my head telling me so, they would agree. I'd be a benevolent dictator.
>
> Now, if I believed that, and could not be persuaded otherwise, that IS my conscious experience. It is irrational,
> but no one ever said that the Universe put rationality brakes on consciousness.
>
> We can discuss what goes wrong with deranged versions of consciousness, but it's still consciousness.
>
> Remember Window 95? It was still an operating system.
>
> PS (Who's with me on the proposed arrangement above?) :)
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 12:55 PM Peter Jones <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> Rob, et.al.,
>> Is not delusional the absence of reflective?
>>
>> I remember that brain surgeon who died visited heaven and then got undead again wrote in his book about the experience that he knows it was real because it was the most real thing he ever experienced. Unfortunately for him, that is exactly the definition of a delusion, no?
>>
>> We won’t bother getting into the necessary and unprecedented errors of St Peter to allow him a peek.
>>
>> Respectfully yours,
>> Peter
>>
>> Sent from where I’m being.
>>
>>>> On Sep 21, 2020, at 11:19 AM, Rob Scott <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>> Absolutely, Gregg. That would be is-ness.
>>>
>>> I had the same thoughts as Peter about consciousness without a body, and Deepak on the fact that the title is a little misleading.
>>>
>>> But my biggest take away was that consciousness (as you’re experiencing it, pre-interpretation/analysis) is the only thing that can’t be delusion (because delusion requires misinterpreting).
>>>
>>> I think this is really important for more humans to understand and have as a skill.
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:55 AM Deepak Loomba <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Colleagues,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Frankly, the Sam Harris clip is like sufi music, nirvana -
>>>>
>>>> entertainment. Looked into it slow motion, but could not find the
>>>>
>>>> answer to the million dollar question of how consciousness arose
>>>>
>>>> from matter. Other than the fact that the title, "consciousness
>>>>
>>>> arose from matter" itself holds the presumption that consciousness
>>>>
>>>> is material. While the video promised to tell how.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> TY
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> DL
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/21/2020 7:02 PM, Henriques, Gregg
>>>>
>>>> - henriqgx wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Folks,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought this 6 minute clip on
>>>>>
>>>>> consciousness was worthwhile:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DLpaDlIlqygE&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=gPWfsbedTTJKPPWjW7__nP6nhYXstx8iRoTMyNhfuE4&s=-MFMvydWOWDGjt1mqNjCUn7ZamfxSwVY8VunudS2t7k&e=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course, with the BM3 solution, we can
>>>>>
>>>>> make significant advances in the “descriptive metaphysical
>>>>>
>>>>> system” that surrounds this set of claims.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, I was thinking it might be helpful
>>>>>
>>>>> to point out how I would frame his point about consciousness
>>>>>
>>>>> being the only thing we can know for certain. The UTOK would
>>>>>
>>>>> say that a consciousness event is the intersection of the
>>>>>
>>>>> ontic reality of being, epistemology, and ontology. That is,
>>>>>
>>>>> whatever you are experiencing is real in-and-of-itself, is the
>>>>>
>>>>> product of a witnessing experiencing functioning that is an
>>>>>
>>>>> ontological fundamental reality.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think Rob Scott might put it as the
>>>>>
>>>>> moment of “is-ness”. Is that fair, Rob?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gregg
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ___________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gregg Henriques, Ph.D.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Professor
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Department of Graduate Psychology
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 216 Johnston Hall
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> MSC 7401
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> James Madison University
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Harrisonburg, VA 22807
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (540) 568-7857 (phone)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (540) 568-4747 (fax)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Be that which enhances dignity and well-being with
>>>>>
>>>>> integrity.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out the Unified Theory Of Knowledge
>>>>>
>>>>> homepage at:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.unifiedtheoryofknowledge.org_&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=gPWfsbedTTJKPPWjW7__nP6nhYXstx8iRoTMyNhfuE4&s=ey5vg8r5OjcAydlahddWim2g93r9B91W_kTo2VYzQL8&e=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ############################
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list:
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>> or click the following link:
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <Signatures DL Gmail WO Cell.jpg>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>
>
> --
> ---
> james lyons-weiler, phd
> Author, CEO, President, Scientist
> Editor-in-Chief, Science, Public Health Policy, and the Law
> Guest Contributor, Children's Health Defense
>
> The Environmental and Genetic Causes of Autism (Skyhorse Publishing)
> Cures vs. Profits: Successes in Translational Research (World Scientific, 2016)
> Ebola: An Evolving Story (World Scientific, 2015)
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