Eric:

I have been following the discussion between yourself and Gregg.
Indeed, it is fascinating to contrast the two views.
Your explanation in terms of physics, including theoretical physics, is interesting.

I wonder if you would add a description of how your Mosaic Model influences our perceptions of The Human Condition.
By that I mean: what makes us, constitutes us, and influences our thoughts, feeling, and behaviors as Homo sapiens sapiens.

Granted, that requires delving into the philosophical and, in particular, the theoretical and philosophical human psychology.

I am interested in comparing your perceptions on these matters with those of Gregg.

Best regards,

Waldemar

Waldemar A Schmidt, PhD, MD
(Perseveret et Percipiunt)
503.631.8044

Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. (A Einstein)

> On Apr 14, 2021, at 11:27 PM, easalien <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
> Sorry Gregg,
> 
> After looking through these materials, I remain thoroughly unconvinced. Whatever skepticism I had beforehand may be more pronounced. There seems to be an impasse in our methodologies: You treat mind as a concept, while I treat it as real.
> 
> Referencing E.F. Schumacher, your variables represent ontological discontinuities. While I agree that distinctions exist between domains such as biology, chemistry, history, etc., your solution is to posit philosophical stopgaps. These joint points represent actual events, and your tendency to address them in purely philosophical terms is not explanatory. The hierarchical model is better represented diagrammatically in Cahoone’s Order of Nature, if consciousness functions as inner perception.
> 
> Cahoone’s Model:
> 
> <image_123986672.JPG>
> 
> Mosaic Model:
> 
> <IMG_0344.jpg>
> 
> It appears the model I’ve discovered shares greater fidelity with Cahoone’s than with your own. However, the true benefit of Mosaic are its testable predictions:
> 
> Hard Problem: The mind-body separation acts as an event horizon predicated on Spontaneous Symmetry Breaking (Memory). Differences in subjective experience arise as individual memories are compared to one another, i.e., Relativity of Experience. By treating the Observer as central, the observable radius of the universe should correspond to the radius of non-rotating spherical black hole as observed in Schwarzschild-Hubble Equivalence.
> 
> Matter-Antimatter Distribution (Baryogenesis): If the cosmic horizon is analogous to an event horizon, edge quantum fluctuations should assume the form of Hawking Radiation, with leftover matter separating from its antimatter counterpart due to Spontaneous Symmetry Breaking. It explains the perfect black body spectrum of the CMB.
> 
> Origin of Life (Homochirality): As a mechanism for consciousness, Spontaneous Symmetry Breaking consistently generates novelty in broad categories, e.g., Big Bang. In Biology, monomers in the form of amino acids and nucleotides form the basic building blocks of life. However, nature exhibits a broken symmetry favoring left-handed amino acids and right-handed ribonucleic sugars. The Miller-Urey experiments generated the organic monomers necessary for life, but their racemic distribution did not explain how Homochirality developed. Research now indicates that Spontaneous Symmetry Breaking is possible through superheating “shock” processes, such as meteor impacts.
> 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.researchgate.net_publication_225502642-5FChirality-5Fand-5Fthe-5FOrigin-5Fof-5FHomochirality&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=jH7eBrWxZY8rpamTTNXvYdKwEKXZh8E4W9MYKXa5Edw&s=STIBl9toDAj3l5KG8yqhzUOkuj52c6u9yECjDTJJIYA&e=  <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.researchgate.net_publication_225502642-5FChirality-5Fand-5Fthe-5FOrigin-5Fof-5FHomochirality&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=fmAsjGE4w_Hp-he_ONUwVKVPwOpeiZwXvNZ2y5K6asc&s=-5ug-XXPwGHQENW37uMNph5iYdJc7obdHY0db8PQW68&e=>
> 
> Quantum Gravity: QM and GR cannot be mathematically reconciled due to singularity, representing Absolute Potential (Graviton). However, by treating Gravity as a preserved symmetry, we no longer have to reconcile them. Manifests as broken symmetries in QM. 
> 
> Dark Matter: As a corollary of a requisite condition in Penrose’s Singularity Theorem—local interactions be non-negative—nonlocal interactions can be negative (gravitational). Potential as source of “extra” gravity.
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.nature.com_articles_ncomms7665&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=jH7eBrWxZY8rpamTTNXvYdKwEKXZh8E4W9MYKXa5Edw&s=EUU8BM029JAvd8BQE5VIeeDvj8c-2bMJwrvfyMIxVgY&e=  <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.nature.com_articles_ncomms7665&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=fmAsjGE4w_Hp-he_ONUwVKVPwOpeiZwXvNZ2y5K6asc&s=mcgGlHKqlcz5No-zSObZNF7660zGA0M4DvaNl8095-Q&e=>
> 
> Dark Energy: Unlike ordinary matter, Potential doesn’t dilute as volume increases. The Casimir Effect demonstrates the outward pressure of collapsing Potential in the vacuum, as weakness of Dark Energy correlates to weakness of Gravity (Hierarchy Problems). Manifests as Cosmological Constant.
> 
> Strong CP Problem: In experiments, Charge-Parity Symmetry is maintained in Strong Force interactions even though they should break.  According to the Mosaic, the Strong Force exhibits the greatest symmetry with the exception of Gravity. Conversely, the Weak Force manifests asymmetrically, a discovery that earned Tsung-Dao Lee and Chen-Ning Yang—with assistance from Chien-Shiung Wu—the 1957 Nobel Prize.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 3:49 AM Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
> Eric,
> 
>  
> 
>   You say you don’t mean to come across as contrarian and yet you consistently do. You might reflect some on that.
> 
>  
> 
>   To address your two questions, first I suggest you look through the attached book, A Guide for the Perplexed <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_A-5FGuide-5Ffor-5Fthe-5FPerplexed&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=fmAsjGE4w_Hp-he_ONUwVKVPwOpeiZwXvNZ2y5K6asc&s=vzH9NDc8AU3cC53NDuHfUKIWoK6oKxwHEsTvhF0AKZc&e=>. It is designed to be an easy read. Check out pages 15-27 and you will see one source for the A + B + C + D analysis.
> 
> Here is the particularly relevant portion:
> 
> <image011.png>
> 
> It also can be connected to Wilber’s Great Nest of Being, as he elaborated in The Marriage of Sense and Soul. And other places. Like Aristotle’s scales of nature <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Great-5Fchain-5Fof-5Fbeing&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=fmAsjGE4w_Hp-he_ONUwVKVPwOpeiZwXvNZ2y5K6asc&s=ilRkm_JD05grmbyNxtenmjcXulShm5lc-M9_7s-Kjlg&e=>. If you want a more up-to-date analysis of these scales/level/layers/orders, see Cahoone’s The Orders of Nature <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.amazon.com_Orders-2DNature-2DLawrence-2DCahoone_dp_1438444168&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=fmAsjGE4w_Hp-he_ONUwVKVPwOpeiZwXvNZ2y5K6asc&s=EVOoZurSxNPwbsJZpMpbcvsg8yVLnTtcNkEeMNVqUdY&e=> (I have the pdf I can share). The argument that Matter, Life, Mind, and Culture emerge out of an implicate order of “pure” Energy-Information which represent distinguishable variable clusters and this is mapped by scientific knowledge is central to the entire UTOK project. See, e.g., the original ToK Manifesto I wrote more than 20 years ago <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__medium.com_unified-2Dtheory-2Dof-2Dknowledge_the-2Dtree-2Dof-2Dknowledge-2Dsystem-2Dmanifesto-2Ddc29b7edab4b&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=fmAsjGE4w_Hp-he_ONUwVKVPwOpeiZwXvNZ2y5K6asc&s=oZ7E5ONKsCgVd3RoXhGGBOmyjV4m_eC0cKppCcXsOb8&e=>.
> 
>  
> 
> As for my argument about mind and the need for an up-to-date descriptive metaphysics that maps it into the five domains depicted by the Map of Mind, I strongly recommend you watch my two educational videos on the Problem of Psychology and Its Solution.
> 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__drive.google.com_file_d_1Jn1l5-2D-2Dy9MrkphbRLirXgAbYCNwj5uEI_view-3Fusp-3Dsharing&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=jH7eBrWxZY8rpamTTNXvYdKwEKXZh8E4W9MYKXa5Edw&s=9S9a9-r1Orzgba8R_20V9zWmRX_64zhe_JaBkiMzS4E&e=  <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__drive.google.com_file_d_1Jn1l5-2D-2Dy9MrkphbRLirXgAbYCNwj5uEI_view-3Fusp-3Dsharing&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=fmAsjGE4w_Hp-he_ONUwVKVPwOpeiZwXvNZ2y5K6asc&s=BEGKmSWuhhWTosWHRTvAAI-2RDKQcXamhLZ2_4o0-0E&e=> (Part I)
> 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__drive.google.com_file_d_1NPbgaR1rsnAxWdkTV4idNTv0qtx6ty7H_view-3Fusp-3Dsharing&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=jH7eBrWxZY8rpamTTNXvYdKwEKXZh8E4W9MYKXa5Edw&s=J1fD0symWr99Zvc7F8Sg_jAr6wbsluYp2jd5KL1SEu8&e=  <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__drive.google.com_file_d_1NPbgaR1rsnAxWdkTV4idNTv0qtx6ty7H_view-3Fusp-3Dsharing&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=fmAsjGE4w_Hp-he_ONUwVKVPwOpeiZwXvNZ2y5K6asc&s=pRgbx7MtO5sfJvtClTwC2E6oz7Mqf2_mkspgfERefD4&e=> (Part II)
> 
>  
> 
> I also recommend you watch the series I did with John Vervaeke on Untangling the World Knot of Consciousness <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.psychologytoday.com_us_blog_theory-2Dknowledge_202012_untangling-2Dthe-2Dworld-2Dknot-2Dconsciousness&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=fmAsjGE4w_Hp-he_ONUwVKVPwOpeiZwXvNZ2y5K6asc&s=7WLsXmDpS5dF6IAbAJSr4tIE2vQEGBE9WI5ajjcP77o&e=>. The last four episodes spell out precisely this argument, building off of John’s 4P/3R metatheory of cognition <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.psychologytoday.com_us_blog_theory-2Dknowledge_202101_john-2Dvervaeke-2Ds-2Dbrilliant-2D4p3r-2Dmetatheory-2Dcognition&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=fmAsjGE4w_Hp-he_ONUwVKVPwOpeiZwXvNZ2y5K6asc&s=HwiO_AIO-jPeygxa5EQJe9runbxov1hjjTbxS53wTu0&e=>.
> 
>  
> 
> I know it will take some time, but if you really want your presence on the list to have a different feel to it, I encourage you to make the effort.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Gregg
> 
>  
> 
> From: tree of knowledge system discussion <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> On Behalf Of easalien
> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 8:20 PM
> To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: TOK: Clip from my talk with John
> 
>  
> 
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
> 
> Hey Gregg,
> 
>  
> 
> Can you explain what Z + A + B + C + D + X actually means? Do these variables correspond to reality? 
> 
>  
> 
> I don’t ask these questions to be contrarian. It just seems your making enormous assumptions based on scant evidence. For example, how do you justify splitting the mind into 3 (or 5) separate parts? 
> 
>  
> 
> Eric
> 
>  
> 
> On Sun, Apr 11, 2021 at 7:18 AM Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
> 
> Many thanks, friend. I am glad you like it. I found your description enriching.
> 
>  
> 
> I am definitely keen on the idea that I fell into the problem of psychology precisely because there was a massive hole in our naturalistic thinking, which can be specified by the Enlightenment Gap. It is obvious that the Enlightenment failed to give us a coherent naturalistic scientific philosophy that was aligned with human subjectivity and purpose (i.e., the human self, soul, spirit). That was because they had the wrong ontological picture. The right ontological picture is pretty clear to me these days. Let me lay it out for you. I know, Chance, you know much of this already. But what follows is a slightly new, simplified version that you might find worth reading through.
> 
>  
> 
> First, there is an “Energy-Information Implicate Order” that Matter emerges out of. It does not have the same kind of space-time causal properties as macroscopic matter. Let’s call this “Z”. At the Big Beginning/Big Bang, we see that Energy-Information Singularity transforms and differentiates and this is the beginning of the classic material world. Here <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3Dqq3YDfui-2DtI&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=gxXSO6A79Z_BVV4glb5ybXMg022tHHohr_wqIzvZdFI&s=wYY_m39VX2-T2zJzD7ACOBnlAvRUPpRfG6XJfkf5ai8&e=> is a nice easy to follow 15 minute video on the first three minutes. This change reaction gives rise to the first dimension of complexification on the ToK, represented as “Matter”.
> 
>  
> 
> We can call Matter “dimension A”. The macroscopic “explicate order” arises out of the Energy-Information implicate order. How this happens can be framed as the “reality-measurement-emergent” questions/problems that makes interpreting quantum mechanics so difficult. The intersection of the Energy-Information and the Matter dimension is nevertheless clearly framed by quantum mechanics and general relativity. The foundation is quantum relativistic field theory, which shows that we can think of material particles and forces as emerging out of fluctuations in the Energy-Information field. The cohering of particles and forces give rise to macroscopic objects with entangled histories. This is the atomic universe and above at the macroscopic scale. The emergent phenomena include things like atoms and chemical molecules, and stars and galaxies and, of course, space and time as we experience them (in contrast to their “shape” at the implicate order). So now we have Z + A. The physical sciences map Z + A.
> 
>  
> 
> We then get Life. Life is a fundamentally different kind of emergence because it involves the “epistemic” process of knowing. By knowing I mean that cells process information and communicate in networks to generate a novel complex adaptive plane. The biological forms and processes represent a different kind of causal process. That is why there is a shape-break on the ToK. The new Life cone is the new living epistemic process involves the way living things “know” about the external reality. We can call Life “dimension B”. So now we have Z + A + B, with B mapped by biological sciences
> 
>  
> 
> We then, of course, have Mind, which we can call “dimension C”. Once again, we have a fundamentally different kind of “epistemic” process. This time, via animal sensory-movement relations that give rise to the animal behavioral dimension of activity, which the ToK innovatively characterizes as “Mind”. Way too much conceptual grammar is devoted to “the mind” and way to little is devoted to seeing Mind in nature. As someone who is deeply knowledgeable about ethology, I know you get this. But I am just spelling it out. Of course, this evolutionary model allows us to clearly frame neurocognition into subjective conscious experience in animals. Behavioral Investment Theory gives the metatheory. The Map of Mind1,2,3 gives the metaphysics, framing Mind1 as neurocognition and Mind2 as subjective conscious experience. Now we have Z + A + B + C. C should have been mapped by the basic psychological sciences, but the problem of psychology emerged because the Enlightenment gave us the wrong grammar to talk about “the mind”.
> 
>  
> 
> Finally, we get the talking mind of human persons, Mind3 and the Culture that Mind3 produces. The Culture-Person plane is “dimension D”. The network of evolving systems of justification that function to coordinate people in socio-ecological arrangements through time. It is the clear way the ToK carves nature at the B to C and then C to D “joint points” that it affords us a new and proper way to think about the animal-mind, culture-person relationship. So now we have Z + A + B + C + D.
> 
>  
> 
> Then we get the evolution of analytic justification into transcendent knowing. This is the process of: (1) knowing about knowledge; (2)knowing about reality and (3) knowing about the knower. Knowing about knowledge in the West starts with the Greek and the Pythagoreans into Socrates into Plato and Aristotle. They give us the birth of philosophical reflections that attempt to climb out of the socially constructed “cave” and see the forms of the world as they are. Then we get knowing about reality via modern empirical natural science, which gives us the correspondent approach grounded in math and method.
> 
>  
> 
> Then we get knowing about the knower via UTOK. Let’s call this X.
> 
>  
> 
> So now we have Z + A + B + C + D + X.
> 
>  
> 
> We can depict this on the scale of time by complexification as follows:
> 
>  
> 
> <image001.png><image002.png><image003.png><image004.png><image005.png><image006.png><image007.png><image008.png><image005.png><image009.png>
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Z = Energy-Information Implicate Order
> 
> A = Material-Object Explicate Order of Complexity
> 
> B = Living-Organism Order of Complexification
> 
> C = Mental-Animal Order of Complexification
> 
> D = Cultural-Person Order of Complexification
> 
> X = Metaphysical Scientific Knower that Observes/Describes/Explains Behavior Change
> 
>  
> 
> Contextualized in the Tree and the Garden, the iQuad formulation is about developing a logos approach to nonduality, such that it represents the case where observer equals observed. Thus, it is the special case where
> 
> the onto-epistemology of ontic-epistemic relations of observer/observed nonduality can be represented as X = Z + A + B + C + D.  
> 
>  
> 
> This could be called “The Nondual Singularity Theory of Observer (Psyche) = Observed (Behavior)” or something like that…
> 
> Big love, brother.  
> Gregg
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: tree of knowledge system discussion <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> On Behalf Of Chance McDermott
> Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2021 2:33 PM
> To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: TOK: Clip from my talk with John
> 
>  
> 
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
> 
> Gregg,
> 
>  
> 
> I resonate with the mission statement:  "We are seeking a coherent, naturalistic ontology that can revitalize the human soul and spirit in the 21st century"
> 
>  
> 
> It appears to me to be dense, precise, and uplifting.
> 
>  
> 
> Best,
> 
>  
> 
> -Chance
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> On Sat, Apr 10, 2021 at 10:04 AM Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
> 
> Hi TOK List,
> 
>  
> 
>   I am working with Christian Gross to set up the “UTOKing with Gregg Podcast”. We will be formally announcing it Monday, and the first episode will be released on Thursday. Apropos of Voices with Vervaeke (I was John’s first guest), John is the first guest. Given the discussions on the list, I thought I would share the two minute clip as a preview (thanks to Christian for finding and selecting this clip).
> 
>  
> 
> Here it is:
> 
>  
> 
>  UTOKing with John Vervaeke - Clip.mp4 <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__drive.google.com_file_d_1kmAvCL4gVWCF75ooXrdMHSl4awuj2Zrw_view-3Fusp-3Ddrive-5Fweb&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=wjF8cZoiFchamTuxBdDEmw&m=AYFX0kB-9msai7Cux39UQ5sMlWA0a5jcO5wReMl34TA&s=AOMThfpnVBKU99d0Djl5uQKCCN80cV3jK1AaDX-LVgs&e=>
>   
> 
> And this is the quote we are speaking about, which frames the clip and much of the discussion:
> 
>  
> 
> <image010.png>
> 
>  
> 
> Best,
> 
> Gregg
> 
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