Thanks Michael. You're more interpretive explanation delves more deeply into the meaning of the system, which the more "behaviorist"-oriented among us, such as myself, do not spend nearly enough time examining. What I read from your analysis (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is that we who think of the world in more purely "behavioral" terms cannot readily translate human meaning onto such a map or Cartesian set of coordinates, at least not in the same way that we track the physical movements of objects and organisms. Yet can we map "mental behavior" through a more explicit formulation? I'm genuinely (and naively) asking the question, as this is not my area of expertise. All the best, -Joe
Dr. Joseph H. Michalski
King’s University College at Western University
266 Epworth Avenue, DL-201
London, Ontario, Canada N6A 2M3
Tel: (519) 433-3491
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From: tree of knowledge system discussion <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Michael Mascolo <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 2:34 PM
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: concentric circles of behavior
Hi All:
On the concentric circles and morality…
Although I’m not entirely sure what your agenda is here (which is important!), the circles make sense to me. From my vantage point, the only circle that it makes sense to speak of morality is the human circle. I’m not sure that it makes sense to say that animals who do not have symbolic capacities (that will include some primates, and maybe other species) perform moral judgments — judgments of “ought” and “ought not” as John has pointed out. Perhaps moral judgments function at the level of semiotic social beings or the like.
This will come as no surprise to Gregg. As one moves down to toward the core of the circles, the concept of “behavior” suggests increasing levels of nuance, right? At the outer rung, defining behavior as object-field relations, as you suggest, “behavior” can be mapped out mathematically or in Cartesian coordinates. For my money, I’m not sure “behavior” is the right word there. Yes, we can speak of the “behavior” of falling objects, but it makes more sense to speak of the movement or the trajectory of movement of falling objects.
As we going toward the core, the capacity for mathematical and Cartesian representations diminishes, and ultimately fades, right? I would argue that it is not possible to map human action — even human reaching — into a three dimensional space. You can map the motor components of action onto a three dimensional space; however, to the extent that an act like reaching is motivated and organized by a goal or representation (which is not simply in the world, right?), the representational aspects cannot be modeled in a three-dimensional space.
That is why, in my view, the concept of “behavior” is — [Gregg is taking out a knife right now, and is ready to perform the act of plunging it into me, which will create quite a Cartesian stir to be sure] — not the right term. Once we get to the level of experience and meaning, we are dealing with a different type of process — it is not mere movement or mere motor movement. In my view, the concept of “behavior” shifts as we move from the top to the bottom of the circles in qualitatively different ways — ways that require the we use different terms to refer to the levels.
But these are merely meandering musings.
[Gulp! Ow! I just felt Gregg’s knife. Nah — he’s too gentle and sweet. ]
M.
Michael F. Mascolo, Ph.D.
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Professor, Department of Psychology
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On Mar 25, 2020, at 1:22 PM, Zak Ali <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
It makes sense to me but based on findings in this video I wonder if this good and bad behavior is at an organism level?
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_CfqO1U6lfDs&d=DwIF-w&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=lElBwtEXJwd7X598bPltfOJcwBSjYKAWd1MdQPPokCU&s=CeEEfZGoyet495It2_Ds3fVecp8SX73yWwVaCG9gAYk&e=<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_CfqO1U6lfDs&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=uEAQTYvi_-jbsQja5fwRbO8Ok-0b7zheE8fDpCxUF_k&s=e8-adGXJNMEEMP28Qg931zOxkaWELRejmRsj7bf79Rk&e=>
Zak Ali
On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 12:03 PM Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Hi TOK List,
I wonder if this diagram elicits any reaction on the concept of behavior…note that the outer ring refers to the concept of object field change in general, which can be represented mathematically. For example, via three Cartesian coordinates of space and one of time…
<image001.png>
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