Not at all helpful side note...  People start looking a lot like zombies
too, from a certain perspective.

On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 9:48 AM Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:

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> Very cool, Lee. Thanks for sharing that diagram.
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> For me, consciousness, specifically experiential consciousness,
>
>
>
> sentience
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Sentience-23-3A-7E-3Atext-3DSentience-2520is-2520the-2520capacity-2520to-2Cability-2520to-2520feel-2520-28sentience-29&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=EPnbPllph-Bl5Y7a2zHdsvBjHmIru4q0PKQ5UxZHd5s&s=Spxh7-pcw6Y2qlYxKkAaear6vB1ITWhi-R84u6aWOxM&e= .>
> or the capacity for mental experience/qualia (which is not the same as
> SELF-consciousness), likely emerges shortly after the Cambrian explosion,
> and the evolution of operant behavior patterns. These two books (here
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mitpress.mit.edu_books_evolution-2Dsensitive-2Dsoul&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=EPnbPllph-Bl5Y7a2zHdsvBjHmIru4q0PKQ5UxZHd5s&s=ubDsSR4qCKnTxmC77f9-mkrRuVWuM4v6f6dbMAFEb7c&e= >
>
> and here <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mitpress.mit.edu_books_ancient-2Dorigins-2Dconsciousness&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=EPnbPllph-Bl5Y7a2zHdsvBjHmIru4q0PKQ5UxZHd5s&s=nPb4JYqDPUZVyHyzNDm-x5B970KZsalIoI_KBlxW14k&e= >)
> offer more detailed justifications for that location.
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> That dimension was not super well delineated in your diagram.
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> I think the argument is relatively strong for vertebrates like fish, but
> that question remains open, and there are arguments that only birds and
> mammals show the kind of brain activity that would offer the correlate
> signatures of subjective
>
> experience.
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> I am agnostic about things like insects, as this illustration notes:
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> Is a praying mantis a “zombie”? I would not be surprised either way.
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>
> Note, that as John Vervaeke and I are unpacking in our Worldknot series,
> there are many facets to sentience/phenomenology that need to be unpacked
> and what we generally experience as a singular light coming on is likely a
> layering of generative
>
> functions…
>
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> Best,
>
>
> Gregg
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>
> *From:* tree of knowledge system discussion <
> [log in to unmask]>
>
> *On Behalf Of *Leland Beaumont
>
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 24, 2020 9:30 AM
>
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> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: Sam Harris Six Minute Clip
>
>
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>
>
>
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>
> (I’m just now catching up to this thread)
>
>
> A few years ago I explored the idea of “the evolution of emergence” and
> created this diagram:
>
>
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__archive.org_details_PrintEmergence&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=EPnbPllph-Bl5Y7a2zHdsvBjHmIru4q0PKQ5UxZHd5s&s=gzDZu-AoiBf_FG4oh6nxAxvuW9b48oucqfHWgASpFuI&e= 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__archive.org_details_PrintEmergence&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=LHTwMXMdrbDhjwVqjJzgQWzkafQIfms_uiXylfIPcfk&s=tTOWPOZSUSnOnBXagF1G_6Wu6P4SLyvvfiEiaK6Pv8w&e=>
>
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> Where do you estimate consciousness emerges in this diagram?
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> Thanks
>
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>
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> Lee Beaumont
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>
>
> *From:* tree of knowledge system discussion <
> [log in to unmask]>
>
> *On Behalf Of *Nicholas Lattanzio
>
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 23, 2020 9:08 AM
>
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> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: Sam Harris Six Minute Clip
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> James,
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> I too would love to participate in this podcast idea. I think clarifying
> this Big Shift and cultivating a higher level of consciousness which
> enables more value-latent cultural functioning is the core of this
>
> society (TOK listserv), we can do this in so many ways but right action is
> key at this juncture, so count me in.
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
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>
>
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>
>
> Nicholas G. Lattanzio, Psy.D.
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> On Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 4:44 PM James Lyons-Weiler <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
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> A proposal:
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> I sense a Big Shift underway here.  Reaching the masses will take
> consistent effort.
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>
> I'd like to propose a four-to-six person revolving *Intentional
> Consciousness Expansion *
>
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>
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> podcast, say, 2 hrs every 2 weeks.  Four core people on the screen at
> once, sometimes 1 or 2 more.
>
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>
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>
> My platform can host any number of podcasts (via  WWDNYK - What We Do Not
> Yet Know) - studios.
>
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>
> No fee, but we'll pitch
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__patreon.com_WWDNYK&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=EPnbPllph-Bl5Y7a2zHdsvBjHmIru4q0PKQ5UxZHd5s&s=EMailhc4VvYhAMJh-fzN3Y3HRPP-fbzzohwRhVusZAA&e= 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__patreon.com_WWDNYK&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=VZJtLcpiYTu1sntQ3v3BVKp8kjAFthRo5p03dgCAfl8&s=ht13a2TaWUR8pHErfx4YopbzDYV9wm_DbC-J7MxJYPc&e=>
> to help keep to lights on.
>
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> If we start with four core people we can occasionally add a few more.
> Round-robin discussion
>
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> on the main topic of the day.  And related issues.  This community can
> make a list of topics and well go at them.
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> Society's hurting, let's put a little ICE on it. Call it ICE. or Big
> Shift.  Your call on the name of the podcast,
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> I'd be happy to host a few to work out the kinks and then fall into the
> background and re-emerge if I think I have
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> something worth adding.
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> I cannot believe I'm adding more to my calendar, but I have a sense this
> is a good thing.
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> Let me know!
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> JLW
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> On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 5:11 PM Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
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> Thank you for this comment, Manuel. I very much agree that one of the keys
> that was overlooked is the relationship between language,
> self-consciousness adds key confusions. I also
>
> wish he was clear that the only clear examples of consciousness we have
> are things that are first alive, so it really is more how Matter becomes
> Life becomes conscious.
>
>
>
>
>
> Also, let me extend a warm welcome to Manuel Manga, as he recently joined
> the list. Manuel and I had a truly wonderful conversation the other week.
> He has a magnificent and crucial
>
> vision for
>
> “evolutionary leadership
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__evolutionleader.com_pages_manuel-2Dmanga_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=VZJtLcpiYTu1sntQ3v3BVKp8kjAFthRo5p03dgCAfl8&s=HwG5mt4DrdLeucFE8trq4pm5tJfMlovGdzJeJbkZjdE&e=>”,
> which is desperately needed in this time between worlds. His
> humanistic/spiritual/scientific vision is very congruent with the ToK
> System and larger Unified Theory Of Knowledge and I am thrilled he has
> joined our community. It
>
> is worth noting that he worked with Humberto Maturana, who, along with
> Francisco Valera. wrote the ground breaking book,
>
> *The Tree of Knowledge: The Biological Roots of Human Understanding
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.amazon.com_Tree-2DKnowledge-2DBiological-2DRoots-2DUnderstanding_dp_0877736421&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=VZJtLcpiYTu1sntQ3v3BVKp8kjAFthRo5p03dgCAfl8&s=1Doxw75yKx4ABtBbWTBKk36uJX5mv9wRsGJ-IqH5FKY&e=>*.
> My naming my system the Tree of Knowledge in the 2000s was, somewhat
> embarrassingly, completely coincidental. If I had done a better job in my
> literature review, I would have come across
>
> there work. Nonetheless, it was very affirming to read as it was a
> brilliant exposition that offered one of the most advanced, consilient
> pictures of human knowledge that had been offered to date.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I look forward to future conversations and possible collaborations.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
> Gregg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* tree of knowledge system discussion <
> [log in to unmask]>
>
> *On Behalf Of *Manuel Manga
>
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 22, 2020 3:15 PM
>
>
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: Sam Harris Six Minute Clip
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Folks,
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I agree that matter gives rise to consciousness. physics to chemistry to
> biology to brain, to mind, to language.
>
> to me language is key to self and consciousness.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> i wish that harris and others spent less time worrying about robots, the
> matrix and ai, and he would focused more
>
> on how we can transform-evolve our minds- consciousness-meta-narratives
> from a destructive species toward a more sustainable-ethical- and
> flourishing species.
>
>
>
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>
>
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>
>
>
> we are heading toward some big crisis, so let's be part academics-part
> evolutionary leaders.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> best,
>
>
>
>
>
>
> manuel manga
>
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>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 6:33 AM Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Folks,
>
>
>   I thought this 6 minute clip on consciousness was worthwhile:
>
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DLpaDlIlqygE&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=EPnbPllph-Bl5Y7a2zHdsvBjHmIru4q0PKQ5UxZHd5s&s=h2svdJf4AgZhlyIz6Cq1NDq1pjTlzyU6mlFMTfn0IfY&e= 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DLpaDlIlqygE&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=2FLqeiUFHf77Lo3raMI1QZAmIRjUxqXYC5HlbkqP5Ro&s=t49LFwBP5LSG1xmnqwKZ3-LKlRH7a_1qhPnJ-L5hRQc&e=>
>
>
>
>
>
>   Of course, with the BM3 solution, we can make significant advances in
> the “descriptive metaphysical system” that surrounds this set of claims.
>
>
>
>
>
>   Also, I was thinking it might be helpful to point out how I would frame
> his point about consciousness being the only thing we can know for certain.
> The UTOK would say that a consciousness
>
> event is the intersection of the ontic reality of being, epistemology, and
> ontology. That is, whatever you are experiencing is real in-and-of-itself,
> is the product of a witnessing experiencing functioning that is an
> ontological fundamental reality.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   I think Rob Scott might put it as the moment of “is-ness”.  Is that
> fair, Rob?
>
>
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
> Gregg
>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________
>
>
> Gregg Henriques, Ph.D.
>
>
> Professor
>
>
> Department of Graduate Psychology
>
>
> 216 Johnston Hall
>
>
> MSC 7401
>
>
> James Madison University
>
>
> Harrisonburg, VA 22807
>
>
> (540) 568-7857 (phone)
>
>
> (540) 568-4747 (fax)
>
>
>
>
>
> *Be that which enhances dignity and well-being with integrity.*
>
>
> Check out the Unified Theory Of Knowledge homepage at:
>
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.unifiedtheoryofknowledge.org_&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=EPnbPllph-Bl5Y7a2zHdsvBjHmIru4q0PKQ5UxZHd5s&s=Z19svnAL--Km4ctT6I55Tr_tC5llmxoADlzQkB29NgY&e= 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.unifiedtheoryofknowledge.org_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=2FLqeiUFHf77Lo3raMI1QZAmIRjUxqXYC5HlbkqP5Ro&s=bMScyEDQeOaFIPR9kfAUhhFylyGhx-6CEkcoLg5eEx8&e=>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ############################
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to:
>
> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the
> following link:
>
>
>
> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1
>
>
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>
> --
>
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>
>
>
>
> *" Humanity is faced with a complex problem of conscious evolution" Paul
> R. Ehrlich*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> +1 617 566 0715
>
>
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>
>
>
>
> ############################
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to:
>
> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the
> following link:
>
>
>
> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ############################
>
>
> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to:
>
> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the
> following link:
>
>
>
> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1
>
>
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>
> --
>
>
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>
>
> ---
>
>
> james lyons-weiler, phd
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Author, CEO, President, Scientist
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Editor-in-Chief,
>
> Science, Public Health Policy, and the Law
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.publichealthpolicyjournal.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=VZJtLcpiYTu1sntQ3v3BVKp8kjAFthRo5p03dgCAfl8&s=a_EM6tjYuUYVD2U_pi-UBhBPhXIRfn7xdzYHb9nYCgM&e=>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Guest Contributor, Children's
>
> Health Defense
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__childrenshealthdefense.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=VZJtLcpiYTu1sntQ3v3BVKp8kjAFthRo5p03dgCAfl8&s=2H5HT2ySApnKKdpmZfTCJWhxjGswsSjWDslLHgDcxXI&e=>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The
>
> Environmental and Genetic Causes of Autism
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__amzn.to_1KNSxPp&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=VZJtLcpiYTu1sntQ3v3BVKp8kjAFthRo5p03dgCAfl8&s=gC7j6zHQYMiAC3cL_f8hOIN1mYFVP5OGt0a02c0KwoY&e=>
> (Skyhorse Publishing)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cures
>
> vs. Profits: Successes in Translational Research
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.amazon.com_gp_product_9814730149_ref-3Das-5Fli-5Fqf-5Fsp-5Fasin-5Fil-5Ftl-3Fie-3DUTF8-26camp-3D1789-26creative-3D9325-26creativeASIN-3D9814730149-26linkCode-3Das2-26tag-3Dlivgrelivwel-2D20&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=VZJtLcpiYTu1sntQ3v3BVKp8kjAFthRo5p03dgCAfl8&s=QVWF-cPRmvsG34xhxYz-WKBzb5zZtwA4FY3FridAblk&e=> (World
> Scientific, 2016)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Ebola:
>
> An Evolving Story
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__amzn.to_1TGYY9r&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=VZJtLcpiYTu1sntQ3v3BVKp8kjAFthRo5p03dgCAfl8&s=oLRJ3IysijOhKjibweYcP61U3z0n3wpUybYKe7v-kg4&e=>
> (World Scientific, 2015)
>
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>
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> cell 412-728-8743
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> email [log in to unmask]
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> www.*linkedin*.com/in/*jameslyonsweiler*
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