Colleagues,
I think this whole problem is manufactured. Reason: There is lot of
semantic confusion - 'reality', 'delusion', 'truth'. It so apparent that
each one has a slightly different understanding of these concepts. I
think you need to first concretize the term and the context. Believe me
rest resolves automatically. And yes make it technical and scientific,
else it will be a circular relationship.
Truly yours
DL
On 9/21/2020 11:26 PM, Peter Jones wrote:
> I agree that by necessity all experiences are actual experiences.
> Where can we though differentiate between an individual’s “reality”
> and the reality of observable evidence. In today’s America this is a
> significant issue as the lines are actively being blurred to
> manipulate people.
>
> Some is considered delusional when their conscious experience doesn’t
> jive with the reality that they lived as can be confirmed by observation.
>
>
> Sent from where I’m being.
>
>> On Sep 21, 2020, at 1:16 PM, James Lyons-Weiler
>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I think saying "reality is a delusion" is to say that experiencing it
>> is indistinguishable from the experience of delusion.
>>
>> For example, I personally believe I am the greatest scientist who
>> ever lived, and if only society would finally wake
>> up and hear the voices in my head telling me so, they would agree.
>> I'd be a benevolent dictator.
>>
>> Now, if I believed that, and could not be persuaded otherwise, that
>> IS my conscious experience. It is irrational,
>> but no one ever said that the Universe put rationality brakes on
>> consciousness.
>>
>> We can discuss what goes wrong with deranged versions of
>> consciousness, but it's still consciousness.
>>
>> Remember Window 95? It was still an operating system.
>>
>> PS (Who's with me on the proposed arrangement above?) :)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 12:55 PM Peter Jones
>> <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>
>> Rob, et.al
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__et.al&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=hyvpCAm4qwVDp8lgqnInkfHQyVQtueXAa1M0NVt8qU4&s=5SpsIIcnKQ79n7fOaw6UrkGH49eJSgRp48oKAnHCcvs&e=>.,
>>
>> Is not delusional the absence of reflective?
>>
>> I remember that brain surgeon who died visited heaven and then
>> got undead again wrote in his book about the experience that he
>> knows it was real because it was the most real thing he ever
>> experienced. Unfortunately for him, that is exactly the
>> definition of a delusion, no?
>>
>> We won’t bother getting into the necessary and unprecedented
>> errors of St Peter to allow him a peek.
>>
>> Respectfully yours,
>> Peter
>>
>> Sent from where I’m being.
>>
>>> On Sep 21, 2020, at 11:19 AM, Rob Scott <[log in to unmask]
>>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Absolutely, Gregg. That would be is-ness.
>>>
>>> I had the same thoughts as Peter about consciousness without a
>>> body, and Deepak on the fact that the title is a little misleading.
>>>
>>> But my biggest take away was that consciousness (as you’re
>>> experiencing it, pre-interpretation/analysis) is the only thing
>>> that can’t be delusion (because delusion requires misinterpreting).
>>>
>>> I think this is really important for more humans to understand
>>> and have as a skill.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:55 AM Deepak Loomba
>>> <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Colleagues,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Frankly, the Sam Harris clip is like sufi music, nirvana -
>>>
>>> entertainment. Looked into it slow motion, but could not
>>> find the
>>>
>>> answer to the million dollar question of how consciousness arose
>>>
>>> from matter. Other than the fact that the title, "consciousness
>>>
>>> arose from matter" itself holds the presumption that
>>> consciousness
>>>
>>> is material. While the video promised to tell how.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> TY
>>>
>>>
>>> DL
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/21/2020 7:02 PM, Henriques, Gregg
>>>
>>> - henriqgx wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Folks,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I thought this 6 minute clip on
>>>>
>>>> consciousness was worthwhile:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DLpaDlIlqygE&d=DwIDaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=h-uBJ9UJ_2rL-CeQ9vP0CgXe7gOWD14pzayoFcUa9qE&s=wa1onnkir5kbwJYrbCDJ41Zq_RfJKwYoL30z-C0avo4&e=
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DLpaDlIlqygE&d=DwMD-g&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=uoPh39Cx0R40-jO6e0GYKVGfGmYd2qFDni4hgMU1cUM&s=r5tpbIWKShLHPAxouMh-jrBs5kA0MMa2t128O26UqR0&e=>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Of course, with the BM3 solution, we can
>>>>
>>>> make significant advances in the “descriptive metaphysical
>>>>
>>>> system” that surrounds this set of claims.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also, I was thinking it might be helpful
>>>>
>>>> to point out how I would frame his point about consciousness
>>>>
>>>> being the only thing we can know for certain. The UTOK would
>>>>
>>>> say that a consciousness event is the intersection of the
>>>>
>>>> ontic reality of being, epistemology, and ontology. That is,
>>>>
>>>> whatever you are experiencing is real in-and-of-itself, is the
>>>>
>>>> product of a witnessing experiencing functioning that is an
>>>>
>>>> ontological fundamental reality.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think Rob Scott might put it as the
>>>>
>>>> moment of “is-ness”. Is that fair, Rob?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gregg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ___________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gregg Henriques, Ph.D.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Professor
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Department of Graduate Psychology
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 216 Johnston Hall
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> MSC 7401
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> James Madison University
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Harrisonburg, VA 22807
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> (540) 568-7857 (phone)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> (540) 568-4747 (fax)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> /Be that which enhances dignity and well-being with
>>>>
>>>> integrity./
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Check out the Unified Theory Of Knowledge
>>>>
>>>> homepage at:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.unifiedtheoryofknowledge.org_&d=DwIDaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=h-uBJ9UJ_2rL-CeQ9vP0CgXe7gOWD14pzayoFcUa9qE&s=PMm0USVGoruNStRfyAoTkU4O4UCFr9tvZLvYA_F7kSk&e=
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.unifiedtheoryofknowledge.org_&d=DwMD-g&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=uoPh39Cx0R40-jO6e0GYKVGfGmYd2qFDni4hgMU1cUM&s=4sVbClHHQ_oqFgHbrq-aD1KDJQl7BJe6wsMbXtjJNuM&e=>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ############################
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> <Signatures DL Gmail WO Cell.jpg>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>> --
>> ---
>> james lyons-weiler, phd
>> Author, CEO, President, Scientist
>> Editor-in-Chief, Science, Public Health Policy, and the Law
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.publichealthpolicyjournal.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=hyvpCAm4qwVDp8lgqnInkfHQyVQtueXAa1M0NVt8qU4&s=xtSF1qiB1YvIc4nUIBMi4OhjgTNlGetQ-vGViTC90KM&e=>
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>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__childrenshealthdefense.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=hyvpCAm4qwVDp8lgqnInkfHQyVQtueXAa1M0NVt8qU4&s=9KwBpFsBhpERKoIxdXidzOtrMJ7uj5Dbh5ZNdoWFmaM&e=>
>>
>> The Environmental and Genetic Causes of Autism
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__amzn.to_1KNSxPp&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=hyvpCAm4qwVDp8lgqnInkfHQyVQtueXAa1M0NVt8qU4&s=_wt9ptpO29oGNggGsiNRQDcWsOn-VOi-ile1_QHEdRE&e=>
>> (Skyhorse Publishing)
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>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.amazon.com_gp_product_9814730149_ref-3Das-5Fli-5Fqf-5Fsp-5Fasin-5Fil-5Ftl-3Fie-3DUTF8-26camp-3D1789-26creative-3D9325-26creativeASIN-3D9814730149-26linkCode-3Das2-26tag-3Dlivgrelivwel-2D20&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=hyvpCAm4qwVDp8lgqnInkfHQyVQtueXAa1M0NVt8qU4&s=x28I30flXf5U4jA0VrBh1ahMqWDsRKIpf8aLVMLymDo&e=> (World
>> Scientific, 2016)
>> Ebola: An Evolving Story
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__amzn.to_1TGYY9r&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=hyvpCAm4qwVDp8lgqnInkfHQyVQtueXAa1M0NVt8qU4&s=6WcD_wzO8m8Esduavdw-T9zVTKstEDlRPalsovSL2Pk&e=>
>> (World Scientific, 2015)
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