Interesting stuff. Definitely helpful to classify, in a measurable way,
the quality of arguments.
However, this kind of stuff is typical of everything on the internet,
today, everyone seemingly trying to figure out “how to disagree”. Stopping
at this level is part of what is causing all the destructive polarization,
today.
At canonizer, instead of focusing on, or stopping at how to disagree, we
take it to the next level: “Building and tracking consensus.” The tip of
the pyramid is: “Refuting the Central Point” The question is, how do you
know when you have succeeded, and for who? Most everyone has a different
threshold of proof, required for conversion, on different issues. Throwing
arguments that only "refute" something for 10% at the competing side, over
and over again, (i.e. arguments that don't work) is where everyone is
stuck, l wasting their time, today; Arguments being thrown at the other
side, forever, nobody ever checking to see if any of them are having any
success.
This pyramid seems to measure the level of politeness of the arguments,
while at Canonizer we simply care about how many people does this argument
or evidence convert. The quality of any argument, regardless of where it
appears on this pyramid can be determined by wow many people have jumped
camps, because of any new argument or evidence?
Usually, the core issue is someone not getting what they want, in the
current state of the consensus camp. So, it is critical to provide a way
to track what, and how much of this there is and be able to negotiate the
state of the camp statement. If you can know, concisely and
quantitatively, what EVERYONE truly wants, THAT by definition is
consensus. You will know your consensus camp has achieved that when that
last holdout has finally jumped on board. Only then can you know that you
have completely "refuted" any central point or more generally, any
competing net yet consensus camp. Sure, that is the ideal, and you will
seldomly get there, instantly. But it is nice to have a goal of first
finding out what everyone wants, a requirement for getting as much of that
as possible for everyone.
On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 2:21 AM James Tyler Carpenter <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> It is, Brent.
>
> Of possible utility and interest - I hear Korzybski spinning in the ether
> theses days
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__debatepyramid.ca_&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=kL-0Nu3hAS4RMb4YJWv7Zf8C0NzdbjFN1zYOeSt0VBg&s=knsnZb0w6RJzsrHjkEHlCGHRaktiURe0BqwR0YBXIEw&e=
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__debatepyramid.ca_&d=DwMFAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=Q-3Ueej7ARf7k9JR_D_tn164ER-Y2wYp6KtBdTLPPXw&s=eSZZAJbFChB3-jw11STBjj2AvKDfOAu8HQtkvHCLEKU&e=>
>
>
>
>
> James Tyler Carpenter, PhD, FAACP
> www.metispsych.com
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.experts.com_Expert-2DWitnesses_search-3Fkeyword-3DClinical-2520psychology-26keywordsearchtype-3DAll-2520Words-26category-3DClinical-2520forensic-2520-26categorysearchtype-3DAny-2520Word-26name-3DJames-2520tyler-2520carpenter-26namesearchtype-3DAll-2520Words-26company-3DMetis-26companysearchtype-3DAll-2520Words-26address-3D-2520-26addresssearchtype-3DAll-2520Words-26state-3DMA-26statesearchtype-3DAny-2520Word-26country-3DALL-2520-28or-2520Choose-2520a-2520Country-29-26countrysearchtype-3DAll-2520Words-26page-3D1-26freshsearch-3D1&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=kL-0Nu3hAS4RMb4YJWv7Zf8C0NzdbjFN1zYOeSt0VBg&s=ZQs2K1h-eFH6qSoeWNijkh1TMRB3Nm9GmiwdZF7xdPE&e=
> ------------------------------
> *From:* tree of knowledge system discussion <
> [log in to unmask]> on behalf of Brent Allsop <
> [log in to unmask]>
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 27, 2020 11:30:58 PM
> *To:* [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
> *Subject:* Re: Debate Pyramid
>
> That facebook says: " This Content Isn't Available Right Now "
>
> What is a Debate Pyramid? Sounds interesting.
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 4:56 AM James Tyler Carpenter <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.facebook.com_657741422_posts_10157262427841423_-3Fextid-3DPB7tmGgbVBcfmgso-26d-3Dn&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=kL-0Nu3hAS4RMb4YJWv7Zf8C0NzdbjFN1zYOeSt0VBg&s=FUro2fw69VrRfeyGG23Ph2Xk4ryYFbcCN-c9V81biEM&e=
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.facebook.com_657741422_posts_10157262427841423_-3Fextid-3DPB7tmGgbVBcfmgso-26d-3Dn&d=DwMFAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=pGPFkdFpCllY6lwjZrWj7oq95EtuKh-diPgDoO1sReA&s=aj0-2XQdXdt0jQjv7eOrI9HyLHcjb0XuleFdZZwFCRA&e=>
>
> James Tyler Carpenter, PhD, FAACP
> www.metispsych.com
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.metispsych.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=MCc8QlX6aJZQbXP677n3t55PVhl0X2A15OFPiNRQqro&s=kXreQxpeczvwplcvJIP6gXY-2JPB6ER1OA3SgYlpbSc&e=>
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.experts.com_Expert-2DWitnesses_search-3Fkeyword-3DClinical-2520psychology-26keywordsearchtype-3DAll-2520Words-26category-3DClinical-2520forensic-2520-26categorysearchtype-3DAny-2520Word-26name-3DJames-2520tyler-2520carpenter-26namesearchtype-3DAll-2520Words-26company-3DMetis-26companysearchtype-3DAll-2520Words-26address-3D-2520-26addresssearchtype-3DAll-2520Words-26state-3DMA-26statesearchtype-3DAny-2520Word-26country-3DALL-2520-28or-2520Choose-2520a-2520Country-29-26countrysearchtype-3DAll-2520Words-26page-3D1-26freshsearch-3D1&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=kL-0Nu3hAS4RMb4YJWv7Zf8C0NzdbjFN1zYOeSt0VBg&s=ZQs2K1h-eFH6qSoeWNijkh1TMRB3Nm9GmiwdZF7xdPE&e=
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.experts.com_Expert-2DWitnesses_search-3Fkeyword-3DClinical-2520psychology-26keywordsearchtype-3DAll-2520Words-26category-3DClinical-2520forensic-2520-26categorysearchtype-3DAny-2520Word-26name-3DJames-2520tyler-2520carpenter-26namesearchtype-3DAll-2520Words-26company-3DMetis-26companysearchtype-3DAll-2520Words-26address-3D-2520-26addresssearchtype-3DAll-2520Words-26state-3DMA-26statesearchtype-3DAny-2520Word-26country-3DALL-2520-28or-2520Choose-2520a-2520Country-29-26countrysearchtype-3DAll-2520Words-26page-3D1-26freshsearch-3D1&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=MCc8QlX6aJZQbXP677n3t55PVhl0X2A15OFPiNRQqro&s=sknIY3ZNE7yM8ZPw4zwSFcJWJRVvCuC2EejimdI7xAE&e=>
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