Sorry, this e-mail should have been addressed to John, not Greg.


On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 10:37 AM Brent Allsop <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

>
> Hi Greg,
>
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 7:13 AM JOHN TORDAY <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> HI Brent, I essentially agree with your description of what Qualia are,
>>
>
> If you do agree, then your thinking, or at least what you say about many
> things, must have now changed.  For example, do you now understand how the
> dictionary definition of red is wrong and qualia blind?  Do you now
> understand how redness grenness qualia inverts (either natural or
> engineered) are functionally and mechanistically identical, but physically
> (and consciously) very qualitatively different.  If not, then you still do
> not understand, let alone agree with, my description of what qualia are.
>
>
>> but as I have said repeatedly, the only way to understand the mechanistic
>> basis for Qualia, like that of physiology, is to delve into the 'history'
>> of the strawberry over the course of the evolution of the organism.
>>
>
> Again, this indicates that you do not yet understand.  Redness and
> grenness are mechanistically identical, but qualitatively very different.
> Either one can represent knowledge of red things in mechanistically
> identical ways.  So, again, using your models, you can learn everything
> about the mechanistic bases for qualia, while still completely missing
> whether you are talking about the mechanistically identical redness or
> grenness.
>
> Without doing that you will only show associations and correlations, not
>> the origins and causation, which empowers prediction as the hallmark of a
>> true scientific concept. John
>>
>
> This statement also reveals how you don't yet understand what qualitative
> physical qualities are.  Associations and correlations between a redness
> experience, and the particular physics in the brain that has a redness
> experience are the only thing important to modeling qualia, and making
> predictions like are two people red green inverts or not.  The origins and
> causations, have nothing to do with these kinds of predictions about or
> objective observations discovering whether someone uses redness or grenness
> to represent red things with.
>
> Sure your models handle, deal with, and predict a great many things about
> the mechanisms of consciousness.  But they can tell us nothing about
> whether someone is a red green invert, or not.
>
> Brent
>
>
>
>

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