"We have lived our lives in a techno-psychological war-zone. All of
this has overwhelmed our lives in the past 50+ years. Now, it all has
to stop for the sake of our sanity . . . !!
"
I completely agree. Although I'm of the opinion that we're in a state of
accelerated memetic evolution and this process is working something out.
Large scale justification systems like norms, laws, beliefs, values... etc
are increasingly held to the standards of the largest scale populations.
Everyone is waking up to the increasing integration of collective
attention. We're going crazy because the shadow (all the shit) that's lived
in the human psyche up till now is emerging into collective consciousness.
And it all has to be pruned by our collective thinking until we converge on
larger scale justification systems that integrate the population more and
more around shared attention. I'm suspicious that out of the collective
attention towards higher - justified values will emerge an entity that we
all engage with frequently.
You say that China will never be a part of a Global Justification system.
But consider that increasingly radical changes that have happened as we
move from past to present. Never say never. If you went back in time to the
tribes that lived all over the place and told them they would unite into
nations they'd say you're crazy. And progress is accelerating so it might
happen sooner than we think.
But I sort of agree with you in that I don't think that east and west will
ever be totally unified with each other, but they are cooperating and
integrating more and more towards peace.
The recent dip back into nationalism is the result of immigration.
“States will only unite when they are in common attacked from without” -
Will Durant
So without a threat from without, commerce creates organization at larger
and larger scales.
Durant also says:
“Individualism will decrease in the west as geographical protections cease”
On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 5:17 AM Mark Stahlman <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
> Chance:
>
> Thanks for this moving testimony . . . !!
>
> Yes -- we're at the beginning of what is likely to be some very rough
> times. Paradigm shifts of this magnitude -- from Fantasy to Memory in
> our lifetimes -- are going to be difficult for everyone involved. No
> one will be spared.
>
> Jeff and I predicted Trump's election before a single primary vote was
> cast. On election-eve, we threw a party that ended around 9:30PM when
> it became clear that we were correct. This was not what either of us
> wanted to happen but, given the Cultural forces at work, practically
> inevitable.
>
> My further prediction was that "chaos" would envelop our lives and
> that anyone's ability to honestly assess the situation would
> drastically diminish. I wanted to delay this for another few years.
> Alas, that seems to be exactly where we've wound up. So much for
> pushing a rock up a hill.
>
> A part of the problem -- in mental health terms -- is that we have all
> been trained to pretend that we are personally *responsible* for the
> situation. We aren't. Instead, it is being done to us. In McLuhan's
> terms, we are being "run over" by these technologies. And he believed
> that "understanding media" might help. So do I.
>
> In 1969 he wrote this in a letter to Jacques Maritain, "There is
> deep-seated repugnance in the human breast against understanding the
> processes in which we are involved. Such understanding implies far to
> much responsibility for our actions." Sounds like the "Justification
> Hypothesis" to me. Explaining to people how they are *not*
> responsible for the world in which we live has now become an urgent
> task. Mentally speaking.
>
> My Facebook feed is filled with people demanding the "resignation" of
> Pope Francis over his allowing Ex-Cardinal McCarrick to not "go to
> jail" for his homosexual activities. This is like the "lock her up"
> that still surrounds the 2016 election. None of those involved have
> *any* responsibility for dealing with any of these events. But they
> have been "shaped" by their media environment to falsely think that
> they need to scream in public as-if they were.
>
> Aristotle's "Politics" is instructive. As any historian will certify
> Athens invented "democracy." But Aristotle wasn't Athenian (while
> Plato was, as was his mentor Socrates, who was voted to death by
> democracy.) In fact, Aristotle was likely forced out multiple times
> and his Lyceum was officially banned for *not* being "from Athens"
> shortly after he died (leading to the disappearance of perhaps 50%+ of
> his work.) Not surprisingly, he considered "democracy" to be a
> *degenerate* form of government.
>
> The American Constitution is not "democratic." Presidents are not
> elected by the people. The Senate was originally not a popular vote
> either and it has the final say on most important legislation
> (including Presidential impeachment.) That was by design. Careful
> design. PRINT design.
>
> Under RADIO conditions, Walter Lippmann famously argued that
> "democracy" can't possibly work -- an observation that was based on
> his direct experience with psychological warfare in WW I. Then, after
> WW II, it only got worse. Much worse.
>
> Under TELEVISION conditions, as a cornerstone of the Cold War (called
> "cold" because it was a psychological war on everyone), the US became
> the bastion of "spreading democracy." This even led the CIA to fund
> "Abstract Expressionism" and to send it on a world-tour of embassies,
> as a reflection of our "open-mindedness," compared to "Socialism
> Realism." There are now books on all this. What a mess.
>
> The net effect of this *television* distortion of our lives has been
> to put people in what Joseph Heller called a "Catch-22." akin to what
> Gregory Bateson called a "double bind." Since we are, in fact, not
> responsible for the wider world, but are told every day that we are,
> there is no psychological escape. We are all being "run over" by the
> technologies we use and which have *formed* (or rather distorted) our
> psychological habits . . . !!
>
> I strongly suspect that the *therapy* of the future -- hopefully
> derived from Gregg &al's work -- will help people to understand that
> their "place in the world" is radically different from what they were
> previously compelled to believe. No, it is not our responsibility to
> "Save the cheerleader, save the world" (as we were instructed in the
> TV-show "Heroes.") That was a fantasy. Even an attractive one.
>
> "World Peace" is probably the *mother* of all this. As a matter of
> fact, nuclear weapons were specifically invented by Leo Szilard &al as
> a protege of H.G. Wells in order to force an end to warfare. As a
> matter of fact, LSD became widespread in the population in an attempt
> to provoke an outbreak of "peace in our times." As he details in his
> autobiography (and as he furthered explained in my conversation with
> him), Aldous Huxley recruited him to "dose the elites" for just this
> purpose.
>
> We have lived our lives in a techno-psychological war-zone. All of
> this has overwhelmed our lives in the past 50+ years. Now, it all has
> to stop for the sake of our sanity . . . !!
>
> Mark
>
> P.S. In 2016, I was invited to give a local Jersey City TedX talk.
> When the organizers saw that I was going to suggest that our mental
> health was at stake, they cancelled my talk on the eve of the dress
> rehearsal. They had gone "insane" as a result of the Trump election.
> Needless to say, suggesting in public that you actually don't have to
> vote and, indeed, that "politics" is bad for your health will be met
> with fierce opposition. Just try it some day.
>
> P.P.S. Yesterday Doug Rushkoff emailed me from the offices of the
> "think-and-do-tank" Data & Society to ask if I once lived in that
> building -- 36 W. 20th St. Yes, I was the 4th floor (from 1996-2010)
> and he visited me there -- reminding him of the layout. D&S is a very
> well-funded outfit that is now focused on how Facebook &al have
> "hijacked our minds." Doug is about to go on tour for his soon-to-be
> published "Team Human." This is *very* bad from a mental health
> standpoint. Perhaps tellingly in terms of his own experiences, he
> uses the term "repress" on the cover. As we all know, that's
> Freud-speak. Down that road, does not lie our freedom. That's how we
> got into this "Catch-22" in the first place.
>
> Quoting Chance McDermott <[log in to unmask]>:
>
> > Mark, thank you for your reply (!)
> >
> > The observations and challenges outlined by the research agendas on the
> > your Digital Life Center are the same challenges I have experienced in
> > attempting clinical psychological conceptualization of college student
> > mental health distress. Without a shared understanding of history, and
> > without a clear, orienting direction we are moving towards, it is a
> greater
> > challenge to offer treatment with intellectual integrity. What is
> > "causing" an individual's distress is deceptively complex given wide
> > variances in the multiplying, interacting, levels of analysis.
> >
> > However, Gregg's Unified Theory allows us to take an ethological
> > perspective (which is vastly preferable to a purely laboratory
> perspective)
> > to make determinations about how human beings operate in general
> > (architecture of the human mind), and what they need to experience
> > well-being (e.g., nourishment, security, love and support, relational
> > value). Thus there is a great amount of detail at the psychological
> level
> > in the Unified Theory that has felt necessary in divorcing "need versus
> > want" at the cultural level when offering interventions to clients. Said
> > another way, the Unified Theory/Unified Approach is an operating system
> > that allows a clinician to quickly assess well-being considering a
> > phylogenetically understood hierarchy of needs, and then prioritization
> of
> > intervention based upon awareness of an individual's unique presentation
> in
> > socio-cultural, idiographic space-time.
> >
> > It is one method by which the "humanness" can be authentically bridged
> > between two people from differing positions in the socio-cultural matrix.
> > This alliance is an essential part of effective therapeutic work. If a
> > client is lost in a personal reality and trying to find their way back to
> > balance, it is invaluable that the trusted clinician can "be there" with
> > the client as accurately as possible in surveying the terrain to be
> > traveled to an ideal state (the ideal state is principle-based, with the
> > details filled in by the client's own history).
> >
> > I have experienced significant, objective success using the Unified
> > Approach in my graduate training and internship with clients from many
> > different political perspectives and countries. I am not a "global man"
> by
> > any stretch, and so I was indeed relying much on the Unified Theory.
> >
> > *So what is the problem? *
> >
> > Primarily, it has been the bi-directional shaping between culture and
> > technology. My private search for help with this led me to McLuhan
> during
> > the 2016 year. His lectures validated the importance I placed on these
> > questions, and yet it opened my eyes to a situation that was alarming in
> > its scope and its invisibility to many around me. I myself felt exposed,
> > as if the ride I was on had stopped moving forward (and I suddenly
> realized
> > I was on a ride in the first place (!))
> >
> > So I could indeed help people repair at immediate and personal relational
> > levels of chaos, but anxiety caused by the uncertainty of existing in a
> > society moving in all different, non-linear direction was becoming, to
> me,
> > the salient issue we were all experiencing but could not talk about
> > effectively. While the internet and social media have now offered us
> vast
> > narratives from which we try to determine "what's going down," the
> quaking
> > tectonics of this paradigm shift are primary in my awareness.
> >
> > One of the hopes here, I believe, is that if we could begin to discuss
> > these issues coherently at the process level, we could orient others
> > towards an adaptive, pro-social frame of reality. We are perhaps hoping
> to
> > advocate a perspective which we can override as many brown-eyes/blue-eyes
> > triggers as possible so that we can get our feet under us to clearly face
> > global issues that we seem to be behind on, and which we cannot focus on
> if
> > we are ever suspicious of our own neighbors and family. Or, simply as a
> > means of understanding what paradigm we are currently living in so we can
> > adjust as quickly as possible.
> >
> > Therefore, I am hopeful about the continued compatibility between the
> > Unified Theory and Marshal McLuhan, because there seems to be an
> > opportunity to model the human-environment interaction in a way that may
> > help protect our Western identities as we proceed forward with our
> internal
> > and global conflicts...
> >
> > -Chance
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:34 PM Mark Stahlman <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Chance:
> >>
> >> Yes -- this is not the world we were told (by *television*) that we
> >> would be inheriting . . . !!
> >>
> >> I am in complete agreement with Gregg that what is happening today
> >> amounts to a "Fifth Joint Point" in our "evolution" -- *caused* by
> >> digital technology. However, that transition is *not* the one that
> >> most have thought would take place -- which is why a fresh look at all
> >> this, as ToK provides, is very important. Even mind-blowing.
> >>
> >> As a McLuhan scholar, it is my view that new *paradigms*, such as the
> >> one we are already occupying, mean new "mentalities." Btw, this is
> >> also the view of Merlin Donald, whose work Gregg has carefully
> >> studied. But this is not simply a sequence or progression. Instead,
> >> there is an enormous amount of "retrieval" of our past that is also
> >> involved. That is where McLuhan's Tetrad comes in (about which I run
> >> the Facebook group), as described in his "Laws of Media" (1988,
> >> posthumous.)
> >>
> >> The most recent -- but now obsolete -- ELECTRIC paradigm (say from c.
> >> 1850-2000) *retrieved* a period in human evolution that we would call
> >> "archaic" or, more specifically, "pre-literate." Today it is common
> >> to call this "post-literate" by those who can only think in terms of
> >> "progress" but, as we should be able to observe, losing our capacity
> >> for literate thinking is not really "progress." Among other things,
> >> it makes us more easily manipulated. Thus "fake news." And totally
> >> undermines "intellectual integrity." Thus Trump.
> >>
> >> The new paradigm -- based on DIGITAL technology -- is different. In
> >> particular, it "biases" us towards Memory (not Fantasy) and, as a
> >> result, my Center has the motto "Digital retrieves the Medieval." We
> >> are convinced that means a "come-back" for Aristotle (who as also
> >> retrieved in the 13th-century), so we have been researching all this
> >> for a while -- leading to Jeff Martineau's LADS seminar this summer in
> >> which he taught 30+ people Aristotle's "On the Soul" (or, as it is
> >> more commonly called from the Latin, "De Anima.")
> >>
> >> If you go to Amazon and enter "neo-Aristotelian" in the search, you
> >> will find 20+ titles with that phrase. Many more will come. We think
> >> that this is a sign-of-the-times . . . <g>
> >>
> >> Mark
> >>
> >> Quoting Chance McDermott <[log in to unmask]>:
> >>
> >> > Chilling assessment, Mark. It is painful to imagine a world that
> >> > re-commits to brown-eye/blue-eye, us/them cynicism. Of course we are
> >> stuck
> >> > with that othering mechanism as human beings (for example, there are
> >> people
> >> > who understand that mechanism, and people who don't), and yet if we
> >> abandon
> >> > "family of man" as the stated goal, then we find ourselves in a
> >> significant
> >> > identity crisis.
> >> >
> >> > Do I understand correctly that this is part of the urgency in
> advocating
> >> a
> >> > Western identity based upon on Aristotle?
> >> >
> >> > -Chance
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 8:12 AM Mark Stahlman <[log in to unmask]
> >
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Tokers:
> >> >>
> >> >> While I can't vouch for all the details in this item, I can state
> from
> >> >> direct experience that two years ago the Chinese were rounding up
> >> Uighurs
> >> >> in Shanghai and "deporting" them to Xinjaing. I actually saw it in
> >> action
> >> >> on the streets there.
> >> >>
> >> >> "Xinjiang is now a totalitarian police state of historic proportions
> —
> >> it
> >> >> is widely cited as one of the most heavily policed places in the
> world
> >> >> today. Public security budgets have skyrocketed and futuristic
> >> surveillance
> >> >> systems have been pioneered in the region. As a result, over 20
> percent
> >> of
> >> >> all criminal arrests in China happens in Xinjiang, despite the fact
> that
> >> >> the region contains only 1.5 percent of the country’s population."
> >> >>
> >> >> "In the camps, officials seek to brainwash prisoners to disavow Islam
> >> and
> >> >> pledge loyalty to the Communist Party, and torture those who refuse."
> >> >>
> >> >> "Arbitrary detentions without charge or trial are the norm for
> prisoners
> >> >> in these camps, and ethnically Kazakh Muslims have been
> “disappeared” in
> >> >> large numbers along with Uyghurs. Common “crimes” are “viewing
> foreign
> >> >> websites, taking phone calls from relatives abroad, praying
> regularly or
> >> >> growing a beard.” The widespread use of arbitrary detention is also
> >> being
> >> >> used as a tool to force Uyghurs abroad into silence."
> >> >>
> >> >> <
> >>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__supchina.com_2018_08_22_xinjiang-2Dexplainer-2Dchinas-2Dreeducation-2Dcamps-2Dfor-2Da-2Dmillion-2Dmuslims_&d=DwMBaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=X-RdbOknBVQKywj0rdYxyCTA_j7LUmVegoA_I0_HMlw&s=AhHCO_atxpDBQFarQtajUJpMF2fpK3eLp4xh0NrR3Ig&e=
> >> >
> >> >> About this website
> >> >> supchina.com
> >> >> China’s re-education camps for a million Muslims: What everyone
> needs to
> >> >> know
> >> >> <
> >>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__supchina.com_2018_08_22_xinjiang-2Dexplainer-2Dchinas-2Dreeducation-2Dcamps-2Dfor-2Da-2Dmillion-2Dmuslims_&d=DwMBaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=X-RdbOknBVQKywj0rdYxyCTA_j7LUmVegoA_I0_HMlw&s=AhHCO_atxpDBQFarQtajUJpMF2fpK3eLp4xh0NrR3Ig&e=
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Islam is *alphabetic* and, therefore, West, whereas the Chinese are
> >> >> *ideo/pictogrpahic* and, therefore, East. These are two
> fundamentally
> >> >> different Cultures (capital "C") with fundamentally different
> language
> >> >> technologies at the root of their 2000+ year formation. As a result,
> >> Islam
> >> >> cannot survive in China. Indeed, nothing "alphabetic" will survive.
> >> >>
> >> >> As some might have noticed, Marxism is *also* Western. Accordingly,
> >> from
> >> >> 2004-2011 the Central Party School in Beijing -- where all CPC senior
> >> cadre
> >> >> are trained (modelled on the French ecole hierarchy) -- completely
> >> scrubbed
> >> >> Marxism of its Western traces and "Sinicized" it. This past May, I
> was
> >> in
> >> >> Beijing at the 2nd World Congress on Marxism to personally observe
> the
> >> >> results. The Western Marxists invited to attend were completely
> >> baffled at
> >> >> what had been done -- but happy for the free plane tickets.
> >> >>
> >> >> Now the CPS is teaching Confucius and Laotze to these cadres -- while
> >> also
> >> >> proclaiming publicly that it will win the "War of the Robots" . . .
> !!
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.amazon.com_AI-2DSuperpowers-2DChina-2DSilicon-2DValley_dp_132854639X&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=I7DEa5YxOdkJ7gJgGBvCaLsedEJVAF-yRsXg46rgKqc&s=rxD7nr7K3Ypx3eJyBfBXT4oWZsf5a-214o4fKNqAJDY&e=
> >> >>
> >> >> I was supposed to be back there a week ago but the CPC stopped my
> >> approval
> >> >> to discuss the "robot problem" with one of their researchers. It
> isn't
> >> >> clear if I will be allowed to return. Stories are circulating that
> "CIA
> >> >> collaborators" are being arrested and killed and I'm in their
> "system"
> >> as a
> >> >> "US spy." Now it is being reported that it was the Chinese (not the
> >> >> Russians) who actually hacked the election (or at least Hilary's
> closet
> >> >> servers.)
> >> >>
> >> >> When Mao took over, many attempted to "simplify" the difficult
> Chinese
> >> >> writing system -- which is still foundational, as reflected in the
> >> general
> >> >> use of Chinese subtitles in Chinese movies, since the "accents" of
> many
> >> >> actors cannot be understood everywhere in China. That simplification
> >> then
> >> >> led to the teaching of the alphabet to Chinese children, so that they
> >> could
> >> >> use it for the Pinyin representation of the language. This is now
> the
> >> >> basis of Chinese use of Western technology, since smart-phones don't
> >> have
> >> >> "Chinese" keyboards. Perhaps that will be the next target?
> >> >>
> >> >> There is no chance that China will allow itself to become a part of
> the
> >> >> "Global System" -- other than, as has now become headlines, to take
> >> >> advantage of it. As anyone involved in science/technology at the
> >> >> graduate-level knows, many (if not most) of the accomplished
> students in
> >> >> these fields are Chinese. In effect, our education system has become
> >> >> theirs. No, that does not mean that China is becoming like us. It
> >> means
> >> >> that they are "stealing" our ideas.
> >> >>
> >> >> This presents many problems, particularly in the field of national
> >> >> security. This past Sunday's "60 Minutes" had a segment on two
> >> >> Chinese-Americans whose lives were upended on suspicions of them
> being
> >> >> Chinese spys. The most recent National Security Strategy (NSS 2018)
> >> >> introduced the topic of "National Security Information Base" for the
> >> first
> >> >> time. Everyone involved knows that China was the target. Whatever
> else
> >> >> you might think about Trump, he inherited a front-row seat for a
> world
> >> in
> >> >> massive conflict (largely ignored by the press which is, instead,
> >> obsessed
> >> >> with eliminating him.)
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.whitehouse.gov_wp-2Dcontent_uploads_2017_12_NSS-2DFinal-2D12-2D18-2D2017-2D0905-2D2.pdf&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=I7DEa5YxOdkJ7gJgGBvCaLsedEJVAF-yRsXg46rgKqc&s=wdfc4pHJ60zKw0Yp-8mIL-km9YarrNrdDfyvAUd93uk&e=
> >> >>
> >> >> At the Center, we have concluded that their are *three* over-lapping
> >> >> "global operating systems": East, West and Digital. The
> TELEVISION-era
> >> >> notion of "One World" is totally defunct. Nobody takes the United
> >> Nations
> >> >> (or IMF/World Bank &c) seriously anymore. We have added DIGITAL
> because
> >> >> that's now the driver for *all* Cultures (capital "C" and plural) --
> >> >> including the *new* one that wants to eliminate humanity (by
> >> "upgrading" it
> >> >> and "colonizing Mars.")
> >> >>
> >> >> Yes, as the Chinese saying goes, "May you live in interesting times"
> .
> >> . .
> >> >> <g>
> >> >>
> >> >> Mark
> >> >>
> >> >> P.S. In the late-70s (when I was in my late 20s), I invented what was
> >> then
> >> >> the world's most accurate (in terms of representing the language)
> Arabic
> >> >> wordprocessor. It was called "The Diplomat." I became an expert in
> >> Arabic
> >> >> calligraphy but never learned to speak or read the language. NEC in
> >> Japan
> >> >> hired me to design wheels for their Spinwriter. The Saudi government
> >> >> invited me to help them standarize Arabic for computers (i.e. the
> >> >> equivalent of ASCII). I once spent $10,000 on a hotel bill in
> Riyadh,
> >> >> while drinking $100 Swiss grapejuice. One Thanksgiving, I was almost
> >> >> killed on the highway to Dhahran (leading me to propose over the
> phone
> >> to
> >> >> the mother of my children.)
> >> >>
> >> >> As a result, I know a little about Islam. What is happening now in
> >> China
> >> >> is, from their standpoint, the only thing they can do and they will
> be
> >> >> ruthless in carrying it out. Any notion of there being a "family of
> >> man"
> >> >> should be re-examined. It's only going to get worse, as Sam
> Huntington
> >> >> correctly predicted 30 years ago but, alas, since ELECTRICITY
> *formed*
> >> our
> >> >> elites, he was ignored. "Globalism" is dead -- which is why Trump
> was
> >> >> elected. The "World Order" has already been remade. And, as they
> say,
> >> >> "Something's strange in the neighborhood! Who are you going to call?"
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.amazon.com_Clash-2DCivilizations-2DRemaking-2DWorld-2DOrder_dp_1451628978&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=I7DEa5YxOdkJ7gJgGBvCaLsedEJVAF-yRsXg46rgKqc&s=xbm8imdcJ9BaurooL0uoSVfKoa0Lsij1mZkh4qrBMho&e=
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ############################
> >> >>
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> >> >> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the
> >> >> following link:
> >> >> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > ############################
> >> >
> >> > To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list:
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