I know I'm late to the party, but I don't think most on this listserv would
be surprised to hear that I think science (at least MENS) is an unleashed
and half-tamed knowledge predator with the privilege of being the in-group
for establishing somewhat arbitrary standards.

IMO, we can't know how much we know, we can't know how much there is to
know, we can't know if we've ever reached a hypothetical limit, we can't
even KNOW that what we know is actually correct, perhaps adaptive but not
as a Truth.

But of course for most scientists anything that can be done must be done.
So they can fill their role and that's just fine, but they'll never run out
of orthogonally ontogical boxes to keep putting things in.

Regards,

Nicholas G. Lattanzio, Psy.D.

On Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 5:49 PM Leland Beaumont <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links
> or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is
> safe.
> ------------------------------
>
> ToK Folk,
>
>
>
> Advocates of thinking scientifically
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikiversity.org_wiki_Thinking-5FScientifically&d=DwMFAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=74gLbhHWWpBB89jax-AjaHoGSIHQepgR6tYh9zeZxzE&s=HiEAuNqgcMMesGu5zeQnyfFgS3tNO-ZcCms6P4kghXw&e=>
> are often admonished that science may be OK for scientists, but has strict
> limits. This warning is often expressed by theists as “science and religion
> do not overlap.” Dualists claim that the mind is not formed of matter and
> energy but of something else. Others claim  that subjective experience,
> conscious experience, or the complexities of society cannot be analyzed
> using scientific thinking. Various social scientists may claim that their
> disciplines lie outside of science. Would it be fair for me suggest that
> proponents of the enlightenment gap claim that thinking scientifically
> cannot solve world problems?
>
>
>
> I propose that those who make such claims bear the burden of proving those
> claims. Specifically, those who claim specific limits on the realm of
> thinking scientifically must answer the question:
>
>               *How would science know when and where to stop being
> relevant?*
>
>
>
> Because I acknowledge that we continue to face grand challenges
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikiversity.org_wiki_Grand-5FChallenges&d=DwMFAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=74gLbhHWWpBB89jax-AjaHoGSIHQepgR6tYh9zeZxzE&s=AUsHs_IGhGuNsV294SQv_jKgZ6hRk89vmZbgP2-PyzA&e=>
> that persist and seem resistant to solutions, I am obligated to offer an
> alternative hypothesis. I propose that science is working its way up from
> physics through chemistry, geology, meteorology, and biology into medicine,
> neuroscience, various branches of psychology, sociology, economics, ethics,
> and eventually government
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lelandbeaumont.medium.com_how-2Dare-2Dwe-2Ddoing-2Db89940268fec&d=DwMFAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=74gLbhHWWpBB89jax-AjaHoGSIHQepgR6tYh9zeZxzE&s=cBqCx25LJREAj1gux_e7JrUBwyTL01AMKo7S4O8RL7I&e=>.
> Prolonged searches for elan vital
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_-25C3-2589lan-5Fvital&d=DwMFAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=74gLbhHWWpBB89jax-AjaHoGSIHQepgR6tYh9zeZxzE&s=IwD_-GrV19YzoaE8tk1KldlzEBG1ocEpxnOD1JOWYo8&e=>,
> caloric
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Caloric-5Ftheory&d=DwMFAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=74gLbhHWWpBB89jax-AjaHoGSIHQepgR6tYh9zeZxzE&s=Th3dGEC9zFbyiHn-bx_ivSfyMK6KQp9gDLxooBQq3ig&e=>,
> luminiferous ether
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Luminiferous-5Faether&d=DwMFAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=74gLbhHWWpBB89jax-AjaHoGSIHQepgR6tYh9zeZxzE&s=CXNcgHKNGdWRBF7bTCwcEG_VR-SUNzFQ5-UFeHkWuHs&e=>,
> and phlogiston
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Phlogiston-5Ftheory&d=DwMFAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=74gLbhHWWpBB89jax-AjaHoGSIHQepgR6tYh9zeZxzE&s=kE0L6jNHNDevGWwh0wdfYRyY1RBUtCcsa7EC81kGjcA&e=>
> have brought us to null results and new insights. I advocate that we
> continue to seek real good, regardless of the discipline, or rate of
> progress.
>
>
>
> Enjoy the holidays.
>
>
>
> Respectfully,
>
>
>
> Lee Beaumont
>
>
>
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