I wasn't proselytizing for vegetarianism, and I don't condemn others for
eating meat, and would (and do) eat meat in certain circumstances.  My
point was just that, in my view, there was already enough evidence 30 years
ago for making an informed (though non-dogmatic) choice on the matter,
regarding whether animals deserve humane and life-preserving treatment
wherever possible.

On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 8:45 AM ryanrc111 <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links
> or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is
> safe.
> ------------------------------
> let us not forget that crabs, lobsters, and octopi do NOT show their prey
> mercy.
>
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 11:43 AM ryanrc111 <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> I don't immediately leap to full vegetarianism as the moral response
>> (although I spent the majority of my adult life as a pescatarian that
>> sometimes cheats). Its a long conversation, but suffice it to say that
>> humans evolved as omnivores, whose bodies are well adapted to hunting, and
>> who would not fare well in the WILD, pre-civilization, without hunting
>> skills and self defense skills. Obviously, we had more reverence for life
>> before we invented war and mass domestication of animals, but I
>> digress.....
>>
>> What I wholeheartedly endorse is the ethical treatment of animals, such
>> as the article mentions: giving them a GOOD LIFE and ending their lives
>> with minimal pain. If we have the ability to minimize suffering, we should.
>> For example, shocking a lobster before boiling them is just "good form" and
>> respectful. Live boiling is a horrific concept. Similarly speaking,
>> mutilating shrimp so they breed faster, or crab claws, is a symptom of a
>> cause: removing animals from low stress ecosystems and placing them into
>> extremely high stress conditions.
>>
>> The best omnivore solution, for the time being, is to assure that we
>> simulate natural conditions for the animals, of course; and, that we give
>> our respect to the most sentient species DURING LIFE.
>>
>> I am not a believer in the "general fear of violence", as if extreme
>> pacifism actually makes the universe a better place. Our planet was not
>> designed for extreme pacifism: that is a purely human invention. Our planet
>> involves all the plants and animals eating each other, and balancing
>> symbiosis with predation. Extreme pacifism is NOT a balanced scenario (a
>> vegan planet)  is the most extreme kind of eco-engineering ever attempted
>> on Earth... and although humans are the "steward species" of the planet, in
>> theory, there is a lot of hubris in thinking that radically engineering
>> Gaia for extreme pacifism was the "goal".
>>
>> On the contrary, the acceptance of death is part of HUMILITY, and its the
>> form of humility that most people struggle with today, but did not struggle
>> with in long ago generations. WE have lost humility and have entered an era
>> where we think we have the right and ability to re-engineer the entire
>> planet into a "Safe space for all species" rather than a "natural selection
>> symphony" - and that has got to have negative consequences.
>>
>> Robert
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 11:05 AM Bruce Alderman <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click
>>> links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the
>>> content is safe.
>>> ------------------------------
>>> I think this is welcome news.  But I wonder if there was anything really
>>> new disclosed through this "study."  It seems like a formal gesture just to
>>> put an official "stamp" on something we already knew (or should have
>>> already known, for decades now), but maybe for various reasons just have
>>> been unwilling to generally acknowledge.
>>>
>>> (I became a vegetarian over 34 years ago based on several factors:  1)
>>> the inhumane conditions of mass animal production; 2) the environmental
>>> impact of some of these modes of production; and 3) the current knowledge
>>> at that time of the sentient status of many animals and sea creatures).
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 6:51 AM Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <
>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Folks might find this statement interesting on animal sentience:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gizmodo.com_octopuses-2Dcrabs-2Dand-2Dlobsters-2Dare-2Dsentient-2Dbeings-2Dsay-2D1848105287&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=1B6Psy0mJp6e-nh9GgLqMwUL7x1v1WE7yoDbx71zCvo&s=19CWGojCeZcHTllcLOJaESvQPrgtVBhvyTqast0O-A0&e= 
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gizmodo.com_octopuses-2Dcrabs-2Dand-2Dlobsters-2Dare-2Dsentient-2Dbeings-2Dsay-2D1848105287&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=9z0oPt09E-SSn4u3dqr4bevWg2uU7GZpmetcwvYEvGI&s=055eV1MJMBAj37GJRYK6vA28SgEmqSb1SHhkPrgfH4o&e=>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> G
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ___________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Gregg Henriques, Ph.D.
>>>> Professor
>>>> Department of Graduate Psychology
>>>> 216 Johnston Hall
>>>> MSC 7401
>>>> James Madison University
>>>> Harrisonburg, VA 22807
>>>> (540) 568-7857 (phone)
>>>> (540) 568-4747 (fax)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Be that which enhances dignity and well-being with integrity.*
>>>>
>>>> Check out the Unified Theory Of Knowledge homepage at:
>>>>
>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.unifiedtheoryofknowledge.org_&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=1B6Psy0mJp6e-nh9GgLqMwUL7x1v1WE7yoDbx71zCvo&s=Lm7yHFxLH6gjb06QSfhyDOZdCYl5bnwm5Znu_jr3WPA&e= 
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.unifiedtheoryofknowledge.org_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=9z0oPt09E-SSn4u3dqr4bevWg2uU7GZpmetcwvYEvGI&s=vbt_m5LHGaOmHfY9MwW0E1uWAhGHAfSKT84VtuQdZnQ&e=>
>>>>
>>>>
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