Hi Greg,

On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 7:13 AM JOHN TORDAY <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> HI Brent, I essentially agree with your description of what Qualia are,
>

If you do agree, then your thinking, or at least what you say about many
things, must have now changed.  For example, do you now understand how the
dictionary definition of red is wrong and qualia blind?  Do you now
understand how redness grenness qualia inverts (either natural or
engineered) are functionally and mechanistically identical, but physically
(and consciously) very qualitatively different.  If not, then you still do
not understand, let alone agree with, my description of what qualia are.


> but as I have said repeatedly, the only way to understand the mechanistic
> basis for Qualia, like that of physiology, is to delve into the 'history'
> of the strawberry over the course of the evolution of the organism.
>

Again, this indicates that you do not yet understand.  Redness and grenness
are mechanistically identical, but qualitatively very different.  Either
one can represent knowledge of red things in mechanistically identical
ways.  So, again, using your models, you can learn everything about the
mechanistic bases for qualia, while still completely missing whether you
are talking about the mechanistically identical redness or grenness.

Without doing that you will only show associations and correlations, not
> the origins and causation, which empowers prediction as the hallmark of a
> true scientific concept. John
>

This statement also reveals how you don't yet understand what qualitative
physical qualities are.  Associations and correlations between a redness
experience, and the particular physics in the brain that has a redness
experience are the only thing important to modeling qualia, and making
predictions like are two people red green inverts or not.  The origins and
causations, have nothing to do with these kinds of predictions about or
objective observations discovering whether someone uses redness or grenness
to represent red things with.

Sure your models handle, deal with, and predict a great many things about
the mechanisms of consciousness.  But they can tell us nothing about
whether someone is a red green invert, or not.

Brent

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