Darcia,

I absolutely concur that the US was built on injustice. That Whiteness, Maleness, Heteronormativity (and Christianity), were privileged social identities, that much brutality occurred and there is much work to be done.

My point, from being someone who has for long operating from within that perspective, is that we need deep conversations about the goals and visions. And the problem of “overshoot”. Consider, for example, this November NY Times OpEd, Can My Children Be Friends with White People? https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/11/opinion/sunday/interracial-friendship-donald-trump.html The author basically argues that White people are not to be trusted, which I think it adds to racial us versus them divides.

  As I told one of my students who I was engaged in this kind of dialogue with, the position I advocate for is much more Obama and Martin Luther King than Ta Nehisi Coates and bell hooks…

Best,
G

From: tree of knowledge system discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Darcia Narvaez
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 11:55 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Interesting David Brooks Article

I appreciate Jason's sentiments. We have to keep in mind that the USA was born and bred on wealthy white male supremacism. I think it is hard to see it from the inside but it continues with the assumptions that the Western view is superior to other ways of thinking/being.

Poor whites also experience the economic injustices of a system tilted toward the top (see David Cay Johnston's work, e.g., https://www.amazon.com/Free-Lunch-Wealthiest-Themselves-Government/dp/1591842484/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1514997734&sr=1-3&keywords=david+cay+johnston+books)--now<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.amazon.com_Free-2DLunch-2DWealthiest-2DThemselves-2DGovernment_dp_1591842484_ref-3Dsr-5F1-5F3-3Fs-3Dbooks-26ie-3DUTF8-26qid-3D1514997734-26sr-3D1-2D3-26keywords-3Ddavid-2Bcay-2Bjohnston-2Bbooks-29-2D-2Dnow&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=tGF-1Kr_u24H3FdhYbxxXMisxF3_7XaPARprehyOuNI&s=hVnh4w4KEfwkPIOTUREIKpP-T14SZtfI-D7Vzzb-RMM&e=> made worse with the GOP tax bill.

Poor whites have been encouraged by the white elites to look down upon blacks and others (see White Trash by Nancy Isenberg: https://www.amazon.com/White-Trash-400-Year-History-America/dp/0670785970<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.amazon.com_White-2DTrash-2D400-2DYear-2DHistory-2DAmerica_dp_0670785970&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=tGF-1Kr_u24H3FdhYbxxXMisxF3_7XaPARprehyOuNI&s=ROGaGaQYjK4HYUZYT1dUOhqo51zTL5nlReWAsCwgjkA&e=>)

Blacks continue to be mistreated--lynchings continued to the 1950s (https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_10?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=slavery+by+another+name+by+douglas+blackmon&sprefix=slavery+by%2Cstripbooks%2C146&crid=3P4M06Q5A28SJ<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.amazon.com_s_ref-3Dnb-5Fsb-5Fss-5Fi-5F1-5F10-3Furl-3Dsearch-2Dalias-253Dstripbooks-26field-2Dkeywords-3Dslavery-2Bby-2Banother-2Bname-2Bby-2Bdouglas-2Bblackmon-26sprefix-3Dslavery-2Bby-252Cstripbooks-252C146-26crid-3D3P4M06Q5A28SJ&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=tGF-1Kr_u24H3FdhYbxxXMisxF3_7XaPARprehyOuNI&s=OwUacAyHRwm9A6nfo9z0T6r0p6Z-aVH2hyk2DTXgjBo&e=>)

But not much has changed with the easy shooting of males by police officers who are exonerated when they say they are "afraid for their lives."

Here is an NYT piece discussing a little about the black experience today: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/02/opinion/erica-garner-black-families.html?_r=0<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.nytimes.com_2018_01_02_opinion_erica-2Dgarner-2Dblack-2Dfamilies.html-3F-5Fr-3D0&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=tGF-1Kr_u24H3FdhYbxxXMisxF3_7XaPARprehyOuNI&s=tDPzb7k2ri6pnO8c-nhzI98gzp1qfoEhT_CXdbf_giQ&e=>

Not to forget native Americans, here is a recent history of the genocide carried out against native peoples in California: https://www.amazon.com/American-Genocide-California-Catastrophe-1846-1873/dp/0300230699/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1514997787&sr=1-1&keywords=american+genocide<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.amazon.com_American-2DGenocide-2DCalifornia-2DCatastrophe-2D1846-2D1873_dp_0300230699_ref-3Dsr-5F1-5F1-3Fs-3Dbooks-26ie-3DUTF8-26qid-3D1514997787-26sr-3D1-2D1-26keywords-3Damerican-2Bgenocide&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=tGF-1Kr_u24H3FdhYbxxXMisxF3_7XaPARprehyOuNI&s=0g_1J3WCZDqLuDgjwb7eb_lc6ct44LRYB8EQ9o_GyH0&e=>

Lincoln's Homestead Act was to get whites to take over the lands of natives (considered non human) across the country; land grant universities were built on native lands.

Virtually everywhere you look, the USA is built on injustice. And this is not to mention the vast destruction of the other-than-human.

We have to face the tough facts if we are going to heal ourselves.

Darcia

On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 7:45 PM, nysa71 <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Gregg,

I agree that some "overshoot" and it is a complicated dialectic. On top of this, there are serious economic problems, as well, which certainly only exacerbate the other problems you listed.

`Jason Bessey

On Tuesday, January 2, 2018, 4:04:42 PM EST, Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:



Jason,

  I don’t disagree that privilege is an important concept to reflect on. I have led many diversity workshops and am well-versed in unpacking white male privilege. It is important to do so and to be “woke” to these dynamics. And, as you are suggesting, when I look across the landscape at large, I see many folks who are woefully unaware of such dynamics, which is a problem and one that I have been aware of and committed to sense the late 1980s when I became immersed in feminism.



  However, IMO, there are also important pockets with certain left leaning circles (e.g., social science/humanities departments in the academy to name one such circle) that the emphasis and framing “overshoots,” and everything becomes focused on the embodiment of race, maleness, and heteronormativity in a socially constructed milieu.



  I see it as a complicated dialectic.



Best,

G



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From: nysa71<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 2, 2018 3:23 PM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Interesting David Brooks Article



Gregg,

I think the key is simply recognizing that there are some things that we as "white males" won't have to deal with because of being "white" and "male". That's the privilege.

An example that comes to mind is when my former sister-in-law went for a job interview at a local paper mill several years ago. She and my brother had recently had a child. The interviewer asked her, "But who's going to watch the baby when your working?" My stunned sister-in-law said, "Um...a daycare provider or her father".

A man would never have to worry about being asked such a ridiculous and patronizing (and certainly illegal!) question. Just one "male privilege" we have.

I don't think I have to worry nearly as much about police brutality as a black person does. That's one example of my "white privilege".

It's not recognizing these sorts of things which contributes to an oppressive system of "the Other". We can't fix problems we don't recognize.

~ Jason Bessey
On Tuesday, January 2, 2018, 1:42:48 PM EST, Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:



I guess the issue is whether the point regarding oppression is being minimized by Brooks or if it is being exaggerated by others.



I certainly find myself in contexts in the university academy where I feel folks are over-emphasizing white male oppression.



And it is too easy for someone to hear me voice that and then state that I must be saying that because I am a privileged white male and am blinded by self-serving motives (an accusation that has been leveled against me).



G



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From: nysa71<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 2, 2018 1:36 PM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Interesting David Brooks Article


Gregg,

I'm all for heterodoxy. It's very much needed. And nothing wrong with different political viewpoints. But I was criticizing Brooke's minimization of oppression, and his whole strawman that identifying oppression necessarily means that one's "goodness is secure", that one has "virtue without obligation", and that "nothing is one's fault". (Just because someone is "oppressed" doesn't mean they can't be a bad, non-virtuous person who has a lot of things happen to them that is their fault.)

I found it to be a very self-serving article by a neoliberal, white male-privileged media elitist who down-played neo-liberalism, white male privilege, and media elitism and the contributions these things make to the very systemic and institutional oppression that he's minimizing.

Indeed, it's ironic that he was engaging in a "tribalism" of his own by so easily criticizing the "oppressed herd" without considering the possibility that he himself could be part of the "oppressor herd".

~ Jason

On Tuesday, January 2, 2018, 12:44:02 PM EST, Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:



Jason,

  You don’t see any validity to his point?



  I find myself resonating with it. I am a member of the Heterodox Academy (https://heterodoxacademy.org/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__heterodoxacademy.org_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=s7E6hU5UlYFY6gQijMvYR9Mz6wxlYSVWfmXVz1QJn0k&s=uh229-o5-tXpnuGbbkiKdhuytlc8z-cRd4aF7L77q9Q&e=>), which is concerned with the lack of political viewpoint diversity in the academy.

G



Sent from Mail<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__go.microsoft.com_fwlink_-3FLinkId-3D550986&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=s7E6hU5UlYFY6gQijMvYR9Mz6wxlYSVWfmXVz1QJn0k&s=N4CzN_8NJQQlTQDd_wX6fHGMv0ZDIVWlwUZAPaMWgxk&e=> for Windows 10



From: nysa71<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 2, 2018 11:51 AM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Interesting David Brooks Article


"The easiest way to do that is to tell a tribal oppressor/oppressed story and build your own innocence on your status as victim. Just about everybody can find a personal victim story. Once you’ve identified your herd’s oppressor — the neoliberal order, the media elite, white males, whatever — your goodness is secure. You have virtue without obligation. Nothing is your fault."

Well, we do in fact live in a world of oppression, though it's more "top vs down" than "left vs. right". How convenient, though, that that would be minimized by a white male media elitist and neoliberal apologist. I guess that way, he can have virtue without obligation and nothing is the fault of his herd. [Emoji]

~ Jason Bessey
On Tuesday, January 2, 2018, 10:47:17 AM EST, Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:



I found this to be a thoughtful article by David Brooks. I find my own life mission oriented toward contributing to conversation and visions having to do with (re)constructing a broader, deeper, wiser global worldview.



https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/01/opinion/the-retreat-to-tribalism.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.nytimes.com_2018_01_01_opinion_the-2Dretreat-2Dto-2Dtribalism.html-3Faction-3Dclick-26pgtype-3DHomepage-26clickSource-3Dstory-2Dheading-26module-3Dopinion-2Dc-2Dcol-2Dleft-2Dregion-26region-3Dopinion-2Dc-2Dcol-2Dleft-2Dregion-26WT.nav-3Dopinion-2Dc-2Dcol-2Dleft-2Dregion&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=HMLUi7Owr7FINbhMMGiMiE7bJs2PWgNXZkkr4Aono5o&s=uT5I3J9qeSDfjEnYsFWE0ueGRjP9GwshnRJb2yyq778&e=>



Best,

Gregg



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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Darcia Narvaez (DAR-sha narv-EYES)
Professor of Psychology, 118 Haggar Hall, University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame IN 46556 USA

[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>, 574-631-7835<tel:574-631-7835>

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Evolution, Early Experience and Human Development<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.oup.com_us_catalog_general_subject_Psychology_Developmental_-3Fview-3Dusa-26sf-3Dtoc-26ci-3D9780199755059&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=tGF-1Kr_u24H3FdhYbxxXMisxF3_7XaPARprehyOuNI&s=a-0yiRGbpTUXCKSVyl770Yt2fRiM2O5kT_PKHWPdCa8&e=> (OUP)
Ancestral Landscapes in Human Evolution<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__global.oup.com_academic_product_ancestral-2Dlandscapes-2Din-2Dhuman-2Devolution-2D9780199964253-3Fq-3DAncestral-2520Landscapes-2520in-2520Human-2520Evolution-3A-2520Culture-2C-2520Childrearing-2520and-2520Social-2520Wellbeing-26lang-3Den-26cc-3Dus&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=tGF-1Kr_u24H3FdhYbxxXMisxF3_7XaPARprehyOuNI&s=IVS-4uWBSmAlxjTtpSafKxpesXc5M8vJiyUyaVXhUvw&e=> (OUP)
Young Child Flourishing: Evolution, Family & Society<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__global.oup.com_academic_product_contexts-2Dfor-2Dyoung-2Dchild-2Dflourishing-2D9780190237790-3Fcc-3Dus-26lang-3Den-26&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=tGF-1Kr_u24H3FdhYbxxXMisxF3_7XaPARprehyOuNI&s=xwCkmlz72op9W6uxUb8yXqYr__-PVglPAEog2Wd-wj4&e=> (OUP)

amazon.com/author/darcianarvaez<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__amazon.com_author_darcianarvaez&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=tGF-1Kr_u24H3FdhYbxxXMisxF3_7XaPARprehyOuNI&s=FNhi0dp5as7Kciy_XDbr3hH93so0T0K7FfBSw1ioeqo&e=>

Self, Motivation and Virtue Project<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__smvproject.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=tGF-1Kr_u24H3FdhYbxxXMisxF3_7XaPARprehyOuNI&s=5_n6idg6jJlOSPuDjql0Flf_00LaOLlMOGgemw5uoeY&e=>

CONFERENCE VIDEOS: Sustainable Wisdom: Integrating Indigenous Knowhow for Global Flourishing <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__sustainablewisdomatnd.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=tGF-1Kr_u24H3FdhYbxxXMisxF3_7XaPARprehyOuNI&s=z2qEiBZfPMmoNE_9QVckkB4d52XhEROFInp9vnsHlNg&e=>

Families for Conscious Living<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.familiesforconsciousliving.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=tGF-1Kr_u24H3FdhYbxxXMisxF3_7XaPARprehyOuNI&s=i4-eyCXGk3MKTuoEGR6mWD2B2bLzTq5OIK58ILkMmjw&e=>
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