Wow, this is an amazing thread,

The semiotic triangle is an amazing help, because I’ve been having trouble
with self reference my whole life. It’s been trouble for both me and my
interlocutor.

Although it’s fair to discern that all humans have the same trouble, with
our dependency on healthy judgements.

I’d say it’s references in the neo/visual cortex (or between areas for
association and context) having to do with the imagination and projection,
…I and Thou.

My question is this:

I heard the words “God, Guru and the Self” are all One.

And…

The one is blameless. (Sooo simple as it takes two to judge, two to blame,
two to name)

Also, I heard the great secret is that “if the teacher is not respected,
and the student not cared for, confusion will arise no matter how clever
one is” …

How the heck to be one?

My guess to the question of being oneself is to be the self one HAS.













On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 3:11 AM Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Hi James,
>
>  Thanks. I agree with you fully about interlevel causation. This is
> something UTOK tries to help folks get clear about. Indeed, in the UTOK’s
> taxonomy of science given by the ToK into Periodic Table of
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__medium.com_unified-2Dtheory-2Dof-2Dknowledge_the-2D12-2Dfloors-2Dof-2Dscience-2D9c2c485df315&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=dr3vW3cUnOe9zQLgGILz_oupkLGd5vYKe7OF7n5lNq0&s=-kMOf0nfcZ5n0sMOJF4_A4kOT9FW5OQ3dGYCNwN4ugg&e= >
> Behavior
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__medium.com_unified-2Dtheory-2Dof-2Dknowledge_the-2D12-2Dfloors-2Dof-2Dscience-2D9c2c485df315&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=dr3vW3cUnOe9zQLgGILz_oupkLGd5vYKe7OF7n5lNq0&s=-kMOf0nfcZ5n0sMOJF4_A4kOT9FW5OQ3dGYCNwN4ugg&e= >
> (attached), your analogy is good, but not quite what UTOK gives. Rather, it
> is cells (floor 5) that are Life’s equivalent of atoms (floor 2) at the
> Matter level. The reason is that both cells and atoms are primary units of
> organization. Genes are the fundamental “digits of biological information”
> and correspond to Floor 4, and are akin to subatomic particles (floor 1).
>
>
>
> Not sure if you saw that Lee B. posted this article earlier. My reply was:
>
>
>
> *“If anyone believes either that “genetics determines all/there are
> one-to-one gene-behavior relations” OR that “genetics have nothing to do
> with our talents, dispositions, or proclivities,” then they simply are not
> educated in the science of (mental) behavior.”*
>
>
>
> Both atoms and genes are justifications/constructions, so long as that is
> the referent point we mean in the semiotic triangle (i.e., our human
> constructions versus the referent). Of course, they are also both
> scientific ontological concepts that refer to things in the ontic reality
> (i.e., they are not *just* justifications/constructions, which is what
> something like a fictitious novel is).
>
>
>
> I fully agree with you about knowledge helping us to depolarize society, I
> welcome any opportunity to help people start on a journey of awakening to
> the truth. Moralizing about genetics, either as entities that determine
> human behavior or as inevitably dangerous concepts that lead us to Nazism
> are not pathways to the truth.
>
>
> Best,
> Gregg
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* tree of knowledge system discussion <
> [log in to unmask]> *On Behalf Of *James Gien Wong
> *Sent:* Monday, September 20, 2021 4:48 AM
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* This article seems to point to a confusion of interlevel
> causation
>
>
>
> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links
> or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is
> safe.
> ------------------------------
>
> Obviously a very touchy subject...
>
>
>
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.newyorker.com_magazine_2021_09_13_can-2Dprogressives-2Dbe-2Dconvinced-2Dthat-2Dgenetics-2Dmatters_amp-3Ffbclid-3DIwAR1qqy381NHVB-2DY1Tpexr0tKjLHktn-2DGATmvTOKW88MAXCU5Y7bTI8KMyxo&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=dr3vW3cUnOe9zQLgGILz_oupkLGd5vYKe7OF7n5lNq0&s=hGJN52r68u7Z40B3ts935uC3S8czEmHCSZaUqQSx2Eg&e= 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.newyorker.com_magazine_2021_09_13_can-2Dprogressives-2Dbe-2Dconvinced-2Dthat-2Dgenetics-2Dmatters_amp-3Ffbclid-3DIwAR1qqy381NHVB-2DY1Tpexr0tKjLHktn-2DGATmvTOKW88MAXCU5Y7bTI8KMyxo&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=uoJ3BDErbFc-Rl-kStOpfwFglWLuGVx9pX6yPoM3uLc&s=vp_NlzLtB_z6ws3pp5FfWkzoos8cjsUq0Mn1FlBARn8&e=>
>
>
>
> The thought that occurred to me, from this forum’s perspective is that
> genes are the biological equivalent of atoms for the physical universe -
> genes are the reductionist atoms for the biological universe. Just as it is
> quite difficult to generalize causality arguments of quantum effects
> observed at subatomic scales to ones at human/ macroscopic scale, it is
> difficult to generalize  observations at the bio-molecular level to the
> human psychological level.
>
>
>
> Perhaps a ToK framing of the problem can enlighten both polarized sides of
> this contentious argument?
>
>
>
> Both atoms and genes are the result of constructed, scientific human
> narratives. It seems to me that the psychological unpacking of how we
> humans construct stories is critical for our collective survival at this
> time. From climate change to vaccines to behavior genetics, it’s our
> constructed and divergent storytelling that lay at the center of the storm.
> A deep understanding of how we emerge and use language to construct our
> stories seems highly salient to depolarizing society.
>
> --
>
> Wishing you WELLth
>
> Gien
>
> Future Ancestor
>
>
>
> Pull a thread here and you’ll find it’s attached to the rest of the world.
> - Nadeem Aslam
>
>
>
> www.stopresetgo.org
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.stopresetgo.org_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=uoJ3BDErbFc-Rl-kStOpfwFglWLuGVx9pX6yPoM3uLc&s=e3gUspWg-dOstCHEqiEFOBGrFwMJtMEadNjykRz6cg0&e=>
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.earthwisecentre.org_tps&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=dr3vW3cUnOe9zQLgGILz_oupkLGd5vYKe7OF7n5lNq0&s=49qcIPGW_JT2MuzPWY6Prvn6di6Ay5AqJ2kyYGkr6wg&e= 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.earthwisecentre.org_tps&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=uoJ3BDErbFc-Rl-kStOpfwFglWLuGVx9pX6yPoM3uLc&s=pajcYTzKQzM0XWXVWAhjXyxmwa8z8A83YivAtY5AY_0&e=>
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tippingpointfestival.org&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=dr3vW3cUnOe9zQLgGILz_oupkLGd5vYKe7OF7n5lNq0&s=90G4Xg47nWAUz4tQV2jgUsUR1LYQpLBSSR8TCoUrpOs&e= 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tippingpointfestival.org_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=uoJ3BDErbFc-Rl-kStOpfwFglWLuGVx9pX6yPoM3uLc&s=XiDkQVD2qFP-Z24ytKfRpBeNCnftqin5q5RoxjhM5uo&e=>
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.earthwisecentre.org_music-2Dfor-2Dchange&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=dr3vW3cUnOe9zQLgGILz_oupkLGd5vYKe7OF7n5lNq0&s=a0vNNKntev-sA7p7WZqAmn5nHqkRBdWLbN5RsrZ6AJY&e= 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.earthwisecentre.org_music-2Dfor-2Dchange&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=uoJ3BDErbFc-Rl-kStOpfwFglWLuGVx9pX6yPoM3uLc&s=Pm0qMyngmftZSbHGPUbPnnKYDvWtW972GHge6m6g2N0&e=>
>
> www.futureliving.institute
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.futureliving.institute_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=uoJ3BDErbFc-Rl-kStOpfwFglWLuGVx9pX6yPoM3uLc&s=sgEgaoBiMYZeaDWsbUThtz37WlJe5KIw9AEfT-qMrac&e=>
>
> [log in to unmask]
>
> intl ph: (1) 206 973-3924
>
> SA ph: (+27) 79 589 6173
>
> skype: geniepop
>
>
>
> ############################
>
> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to:
> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the
> following link:
> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1
> ############################
>
> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to:
> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the
> following link:
> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1
>
-- 
-Jamie

############################

To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list:
write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]
or click the following link:
http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1