Since my last email, a question occurred to me
A few months ago, I tested positive for Covid-19 but experienced no
symptoms. [Tests were mandated for anyone working on campus at my
institution.]
Here's my question: *Would it be possible (in principle) to "test
positive" for depression, but experience no symptoms? *
The answer is obviously "no", and this has interesting implications. If
we consider depression in relation to a "dysfunction" of some sort (i.e.,
something we could "test positive" for), is the dysfunction a symptom or a
cause? Does it lie at the root of the problem, or is it simply the
problem considered from another angle (i.e., another way of packaging
symptoms)? To see my point, consider what it would mean to speak of a
"dysfunction"* if there were no symptoms whatsoever. * It wouldn't be a
dysfunction! Yet, I can test positive for covid and have no symptoms.
On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 8:56 PM Nicholas Lattanzio <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
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> ------------------------------
> I have much much more to say on this when I have more time but suffice it
> to say for the moment that while the vocabulary used to represent the
> phenomena of mental illness is clearly insufficient but also the only
> reason it's being talked about in scientific circles at all. We are simply
> at a stage in our own cultural sophistication wherein we do not appreciate
> suffering to the degree we do a "medical" illness, although we are moving
> towards sufficiency at least. Without the language, which is as specific as
> it can be in most everything but theoretical underpinnings, suffering of
> this nature would be left to religion and spirituality, which is obviously
> not equipped to handle the beast of mental illness on its own.
>
> There are are certainly biological correspondents to mental illness but we
> lack the technology to actually know what the correspondence is rooted in
> or what it ultimately "is." What I mean here is that we know major
> depression often involves regular thoughts of dying, it's a clear marker we
> can map with neuroimaging that corresponds with the subjective experience
> of thinking about ending one's life. The problem is we don't know what a
> thought "is" other than it's correspondent neuro/bio/physiological
> activity, but it's assuredly reductivist to believe that all a thought "is"
> is that activity. Once we can better understand a thought the way we
> understand a medical illness then we'll have a much broader angle from
> which to view mental illness.
>
> Regards,
>
> Nicholas G. Lattanzio, Psy.D.
>
> On Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 6:49 PM Steven Quackenbush <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links
>> or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is
>> safe.
>> ------------------------------
>> Hi Gregg, Mike, and Waldemar,
>>
>> I can't lay claim to a rich understanding of the literature on mental
>> illness, but I'd like to lay out a set of propositions that would seem to
>> pass a "reasonable person" test. I welcome anyone to let me know if I'm
>> off base with any of this:
>>
>>
>> - A diagnosis of the flu implies the presence of a strain of the flu
>> virus.
>> - A hypothesis regarding *cause* is implicit in the diagnosis
>> itself. *No virus, no flu.*
>> - If the virus isn't present, a diagnosis of the flu is simply a
>> misdiagnosis.
>> - If a causal agent is implied by a diagnosis, we can speak
>> meaningfully of the prevalence of the condition. e.g., The following
>> statement is meaningful: "14% of residents in Franklin County have the
>> flu." Of course, the claim could be wrong (due to misdiagnosis), but
>> that's another matter.
>> - The substantial majority of mental illnesses (including all mood
>> and anxiety-related disorders) are diagnosed based on symptoms rather than
>> cause. The diagnosis does not presume a specific causal agent. Rather,
>> the diagnosis is simply a restatement (or repackaging) of the symptoms.
>> - To be diagnosed with depression is simply to have a certain set
>> of symptoms. e.g., "depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day, as
>> indicated by either subjective report (e.g., feels sad, empty, hopeless) or
>> observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful)"
>> - As there is no causal agent implied in the diagnosis,
>> definitional fiat determines prevalence rates. If we define the term
>> "depressed mood" more broadly, prevalence increases.
>> - This is not an issue with the flu. The causal mechanism is
>> not affected by our (mis)statements regarding symptoms.
>> - If "definitional fiat determines prevalence rates", this does
>> not mean that suffering isn't real. Quite the contrary. Bereavement is
>> among the most painful conditions a person can experience. But it is not a
>> mental illness.
>> - We can meaningfully use the term "depression" as shorthand for
>> some of the most painful aspects of the human condition. But the *causes
>> *may be myriad. This is not the case with the flu (where its the *
>> symptoms* that are myriad!).
>> - Waldemar suggests that one possible cause of mental distress is
>> "some sort of mind/brain/body dysfunction". I'm not in a position to
>> disagree. But the dysfunction need not be the root cause.
>> - For those who speak of "chemical imbalances" (or their analogs),
>> I'd like to ask: "What does a *perfectly balanced* ('healthy')
>> brain look like? Is it simply the statistically normal brain?"
>> - Mike suggests that "we need new vocabulary — one that acknowledges
>> the conditions that 'happen' to us, but also does not depict us as merely
>> passive victims to those happenings." I completely agree. I would merely
>> add the Sartrean dictum: "Make something out of what has been made out of
>> you."
>>
>> ~ Steve Q.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 5:28 PM Waldemar Schmidt <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click
>>> links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the
>>> content is safe.
>>> ------------------------------
>>> Valuable comments, Mike and Gregg.
>>> I agree the term “mental illness” leads us into all sorts of thickets
>>> and brambles - and, away from understanding.
>>> If I may, I want to share some insight I have acquired - as a someone
>>> who is not a psychologist, psychiatrist, psychotherapist, etc.
>>>
>>> To wit, there appear to be two major categories of “mental distress”
>>> resulting in difficulties:
>>>
>>>
>>> - Those who have some sort of mind/brain/body dysfunction which has
>>> resulted in a mind/brain/body incapable of effective function. These folks
>>> are burdened with what is termed psychosis and other entities - such as
>>> autism disorder, schizophrenia, major depressive disorder, bipolar
>>> disorder, etc. In particular cases this situation may be temporary, such
>>> as with intoxications. They can be aided with psychotherapy, training,
>>> medications, etc, but cannot (at present) be “cured” of their affliction.
>>> - Those who have a mind/brain/body which is fully capable of
>>> effective function - but their application of their mind/brain/body isn’t
>>> as effective as it is capable of being. These are folks with what is
>>> termed neurosis - notably not a psychosis, although their dysfunctional
>>> application of their mind/brain/body may be associated with enough
>>> deviation from “normal” as to mimic psychosis. It is possible, at least
>>> conceptually, to aid these patients with psychotherapy, training,
>>> medications, etc, so that their use of their mind/brain/body is maximized -
>>> in this sense, they might be considered “cured."
>>>
>>>
>>> When we lump both of these categories into “mental disease” we impede
>>> meaningful discussion.
>>> The first may be recognized as a true disease, even though etiologies
>>> are poorly understood.
>>> The second is not a disease - any more than a sprained ankle is a
>>> disease - these are afflictions, by whatever means they arose.
>>> When we lump these two categories we produce a concept devoid of meaning
>>> - no wonder there is a funding paucity for related research.
>>>
>>> I agree wholeheartedly with the need for an appropriate nosology and
>>> lexicon.
>>>
>>> So, comments from the peanut gallery!
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Waldemar
>>>
>>> *Waldemar A Schmidt, PhD, MD*
>>> (Perseveret et Percipiunt)
>>> 503.631.8044
>>>
>>> *Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. (A Einstein)*
>>>
>>> On Jul 13, 2021, at 7:16 AM, Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <
>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is an interesting post. And it is from the “empirical
>>> science-heavy” list serve I am on. Figured I would share.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Gregg
>>>
>>> *From:* Society for a Science of Clinical Psychology <
>>> [log in to unmask]> *On Behalf Of *Sarah Victor
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 13, 2021 10:01 AM
>>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>>> *Subject:* [SSCPNET] Call for Signatories – Lived Experience of Mental
>>> Illness among US/Canadian Psychology Faculty
>>>
>>> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click
>>> links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the
>>> content is safe.
>>> ------------------------------
>>> Apologies for any cross-postings!
>>>
>>> --------------
>>>
>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>
>>> In early 2021, the largest known survey of mental health difficulties in
>>> clinical, counseling, and school psychology programs in the United States
>>> and Canada was conducted. *Over 2,000 people responded, and the results
>>> were striking: 82% reported experiencing mental health difficulties in
>>> their lifetime, and 48% reported having been diagnosed with a mental
>>> illness*. The preprint of the publication presenting these findings is
>>> available on OSF here: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__psyarxiv.com_xbfr6_&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=6XqSErD_rFH-OXpVfnhwhdFcuQRT9bTYDFpfpUTagtE&s=PsDAcSphgrgENUxHvFOhZYsP97dk3DGdN0JcLhiU4zY&e=
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fpsyarxiv.com-252Fxbfr6-252F-26data-3D04-257C01-257CSSCPNET-2540listserv.temple.edu-257Cf26f85e4b64a49e04ad808d94606aeae-257C716e81efb52244738e3110bd02ccf6e5-257C0-257C0-257C637617816777629975-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C3000-26sdata-3DrJumOezUqbDUBB3QcElDuTH-252FJwHH-252FfCHVoIn-252Fp7aOrU-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMF-g&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=wjF8cZoiFchamTuxBdDEmw&m=e1mX9q-E_AvJSmXKTMbrv_yTKVxg91NdsMZFn-P90P4&s=XDkKPqxfNWwwFJ2irT7b1EzDw_6Wn9ebktTu0z9bVG8&e=>.
>>> In spite of the obvious relevance of these experiences to the research and
>>> clinical efforts in our fields, mental illness among psychology graduate
>>> students and faculty has long been under-recognized and subject to implicit
>>> and explicit silencing within academic psychology.
>>>
>>> Along with the empirical paper linked above, a group of academic
>>> psychology faculty have drafted an adjoining commentary, in which the
>>> authors (listed below) publicly identify themselves as having lived
>>> experience of mental illness, describe the barriers faculty with mental
>>> illness face within clinical, counseling, and school psychology programs,
>>> and provide a call to action to improve the climate of our fields in
>>> supporting trainees and faculty with mental illness. The commentary
>>> preprint is available on OSF here: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__psyarxiv.com_ksnfd_&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=6XqSErD_rFH-OXpVfnhwhdFcuQRT9bTYDFpfpUTagtE&s=tdPPiDGv2dMFldbyyG-KDLW9--VTlwayiXxNGiAndUA&e=
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fpsyarxiv.com-252Fksnfd-252F-26data-3D04-257C01-257CSSCPNET-2540listserv.temple.edu-257Cf26f85e4b64a49e04ad808d94606aeae-257C716e81efb52244738e3110bd02ccf6e5-257C0-257C0-257C637617816777639971-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C3000-26sdata-3DZ2m14goNRp-252BuBgplsev-252F30dI1CefZ-252BGxN7p1NEejcPc-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMF-g&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=wjF8cZoiFchamTuxBdDEmw&m=e1mX9q-E_AvJSmXKTMbrv_yTKVxg91NdsMZFn-P90P4&s=X6rNei9eISAw6xsDk81TNCmPTuMy3qy_Qtd8ab-HEEA&e=>.
>>> We believe that this work is critical to create a more inclusive, diverse,
>>> just, and equitable field of applied psychological science.
>>>
>>> To that end, *the authors are seeking faculty in American and Canadian
>>> clinical, counseling, and school psychology doctoral programs and
>>> internships who have personal lived experience of mental illness to join
>>> the commentary as signatories*. The goal is to highlight the tremendous
>>> breadth of individuals across career stages who have achieved a faculty
>>> position while living with mental illness, and to send a critical message
>>> that faculty who have experienced mental illness are valued members of our
>>> community.
>>>
>>> If you are interested in learning more about this project, you can read
>>> more and provide your contact information here:
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tinyurl.com_LEsignatories&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=6XqSErD_rFH-OXpVfnhwhdFcuQRT9bTYDFpfpUTagtE&s=86kz5ojS4izL16Iu82uA_DainYUDBkgqoA2BYML4w4c&e=
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Ftinyurl.com-252FLEsignatories-26data-3D04-257C01-257CSSCPNET-2540listserv.temple.edu-257Cf26f85e4b64a49e04ad808d94606aeae-257C716e81efb52244738e3110bd02ccf6e5-257C0-257C0-257C637617816777639971-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C3000-26sdata-3DH1hx-252BsO8ExLsBsoWF6Uxe-252Bp-252F6j6PM4E89el8s-252FF2PDQ-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMF-g&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=wjF8cZoiFchamTuxBdDEmw&m=e1mX9q-E_AvJSmXKTMbrv_yTKVxg91NdsMZFn-P90P4&s=MiZYbcFuzXQ7hNHLY1rubqinU09UhPXqntyc59DMOhQ&e=>.
>>> Please note that all individuals who complete the survey will be contacted
>>> prior to submission of the signatories list, to re-confirm interest and
>>> willingness to be listed, whether in an identifiable or anonymous way. For
>>> further questions about the project, please contact Dr. Sarah Victor,
>>> Assistant Professor at Texas Tech University, [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>> If you know of others who may be interested in becoming involved with
>>> this project, please feel free to forward this information to them as well.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Dr. Sarah Victor, Assistant Professor, Texas Tech University
>>> Dr. Jessica Schleider, Assistant Professor, Stony Brook University
>>> Dr. Brooke Ammerman, Assistant Professor, University of Notre Dame
>>> Dr. Daniel Bradford, Assistant Professor, Oregon State University (fall
>>> 2021)
>>> Andrew Devendorf, Graduate Student, University of South Florida
>>> Dr. Lisa Gunaydin, Assistant Professor, University of California San
>>> Francisco
>>> Dr. Lauren Hallion, Assistant Professor, University of Pittsburgh
>>> Dr. Erin Kaufman, Assistant Professor, University of Western Ontario
>>> Dr. Stephen Lewis, Associate Professor, University of Guelph
>>> Dese’Rae L. Stage, Graduate Student, Temple University
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------
>>> Sarah E. Victor, PhD
>>> Assistant Professor of Psychological Sciences
>>> Texas Tech University
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>>
>>>
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