I thought I'd add about Kurzweil that he claims to use lucid dreaming as
core source of inspiration.

On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 8:16 PM, Chance McDermott <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> John,
>
> Chilling assessment of the current situation.  My hope is that younger
> generations will be aware of technology in ways that mitigate the negative
> effects we are experiencing.  When Kurzweil joined Google in a directorship
> role a few years ago, I flipped out.
>
> Nancy, thank you for your words about bias and over-confidence.  I am
> guilty of proposing my emotional and idealistic take, especially on the
> economy.  How could I possibly know what the next best moves are in an area
> I have no formal training?  And how pragmatic and useful are such claims?
> I hope to phrase those areas of my limited awareness as questions in the
> future.
>
> -Chance
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 6:40 AM, JOHN TORDAY <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> So in the vein of 'how did we get here' when I was in grad school doing
>> my MSc/PhD a hundred years ago the first thing I was taught to do was to
>> formulate a hypothesis, and then determine the background history on the
>> subject in order to know if what I was asking was an original thought or
>> not.......are grad students not required to do such background
>> investigation in the current iconoclastic atmosphere?
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 3:11 AM, Joseph Michalski <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Jason. I fully agree with you. I long ago parted ways
>>> ideologically with the brothers, so that's nothing new. In the extreme,
>>> imagine what it must be like if you're Ted Kaczynski's (Unabomber) brother
>>> trying to determine if you should contact the police because of your
>>> suspicions. It is indeed difficult, but I've long recognized that I do find
>>> some of what the brothers represent (their unfettered pursuit of the
>>> dollar, right-wing extremism, and even clear hints at racism) deeply
>>> disturbing. And, agreed: "it will probably never change." In fact, it's
>>> only gotten worse, as they've become even more recalcitrant in their views
>>> and emboldened by the election of Trump and the millions of people who no
>>> longer feel it's necessary to hide their racism, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>> But, as a social scientist, I'm actually driven more by the quest to
>>> understand why that should be the case. There are plenty of
>>> *enlightened* multi-millionaires out there too and thus people who
>>> apparently do things "against" their vested interests. More generally,
>>> I'm interested in trying to understand the conditions under which "facts,
>>> data, and logic" no longer factor into the equation for some people, or,
>>> perhaps, why they should work so hard to recalibrate their metrics in
>>> regard to the nature of "facts, data, and logic." And I think that's
>>> critical to our broader mission in higher education. Take care, -Joe
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dr. Joseph H. Michalski
>>>
>>> Acting Academic Dean/Associate Academic Dean
>>>
>>> King’s University College at Western University
>>>
>>> 266 Epworth Avenue
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__maps.google.com_-3Fq-3D266-2BEpworth-2BAvenue-2B-250D-250A-2BLondon-2C-2BOntario-2C-2BCanada-2B-2BN6A-2B2M3-26entry-3Dgmail-26source-3Dg&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=swIb-WDXs9mL3I2DiuUkFIVczWS6BpV9GpCD1TFEuZo&s=8xJV8i7cVQad5nfexFjjQLuBoAOF60W0L9yBUTCYbFE&e=>
>>>
>>> London, Ontario, Canada
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__maps.google.com_-3Fq-3D266-2BEpworth-2BAvenue-2B-250D-250A-2BLondon-2C-2BOntario-2C-2BCanada-2B-2BN6A-2B2M3-26entry-3Dgmail-26source-3Dg&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=swIb-WDXs9mL3I2DiuUkFIVczWS6BpV9GpCD1TFEuZo&s=8xJV8i7cVQad5nfexFjjQLuBoAOF60W0L9yBUTCYbFE&e=>
>>>
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__maps.google.com_-3Fq-3D266-2BEpworth-2BAvenue-2B-250D-250A-2BLondon-2C-2BOntario-2C-2BCanada-2B-2B-25C2-25A0-2BN6A-2B2M3-26entry-3Dgmail-26source-3Dg&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=qPHmE6UfrhQ-sEJoH3owvxFgGAj8UNwiW0IT3PBd7xU&s=WmBuMioTRbELNYaplI5Ueupudmf2xkVTJtAsH6O5lH8&e=>N6A
>>> 2M3
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__maps.google.com_-3Fq-3D266-2BEpworth-2BAvenue-2B-250D-250A-2BLondon-2C-2BOntario-2C-2BCanada-2B-2BN6A-2B2M3-26entry-3Dgmail-26source-3Dg&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=swIb-WDXs9mL3I2DiuUkFIVczWS6BpV9GpCD1TFEuZo&s=8xJV8i7cVQad5nfexFjjQLuBoAOF60W0L9yBUTCYbFE&e=>
>>>
>>> Tel: (519) 433-3491, ext. 4439
>>>
>>> Fax: (519) 433-0353
>>>
>>> Email: [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>> ______________________
>>>
>>> *ei*π + 1 = 0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* tree of knowledge system discussion <
>>> [log in to unmask]> on behalf of nysa71 <
>>> [log in to unmask]>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 13, 2018 10:48 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>>> *Subject:* Re: Are We All Nutcases?
>>>
>>> Joseph writes, "This comes from my two brothers, who are *multi-millionaire
>>> realtors*..."
>>>
>>> And there you go, Joseph. You've answered your own question. All the
>>> facts, data, and logic in the world aren't going to change anything with
>>> your brothers, because they each have a personal vested interest in
>>> *ignoring* facts, data, and logic, along with "the other side", even if
>>> it comes from their own brother. Of course, no one wants to believe
>>> something like that about people they love, but it is what it is. And it
>>> will probably never change.
>>>
>>> ~ Jason
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, June 13, 2018, 8:29:07 AM EDT, Joseph Michalski <
>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks John and Chance. First, I fully agree with John's argument about
>>> the symptoms and the notion of "going for the intellectual jugular." That's
>>> often the nature of the discourse in science & the power dynamics involved,
>>> especially when you offer some rather unconventional views or challenge the
>>> standard orthodoxy (as John has done in his work).
>>>
>>>
>>> Chance, I think your Simpsons clip captures perfectly the essence of the
>>> underlying dynamic we're discussing. And note how he walks away with an
>>> entirely different narrative, despite the overwhelming evidence pointing to
>>> his own imminent physical demise. I didn't share that in my response to
>>> my brothers, I offered at least five credible, evidence-based responses to
>>> their critique of higher education. They responded to NONE of these
>>> arguments, but simply ignored them. Instead, the focus was on one sentence
>>> where I mentioned that Peterson's political argument about universities
>>> appealed to his base (a la Trump), and, indeed, that he had become rather
>>> popular amongst the alt-right accordingly. The one brother seized on that
>>> comment to argue, "You see?  There's your typical left-wing bias. You talk
>>> about his appeal to the alt-right and therefore associate his arguments
>>> with white nationalism (I said nothing about white nationalism and wasn't
>>> even thinking about that!) to discredit his ideas. Peterson's not wrong.
>>> He's spot on."
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm left speechless. Literally, what can one say? This comes from my two
>>> brothers, who are multi-millionaire realtors and ardent Trump supporters. I
>>> get that. My point is to try to "reason" with the "other". I figure that
>>> they know me, they know I'll listen to all sides, and that I'll think
>>> seriously about the arguments. Yet nothing I argued had any credibility or
>>> traction, whether based on: 1) scientific evidence I presented about
>>> confirmation bias and groupthink; 2) national polling data on people's
>>> attitudes and the links to their political orientations and
>>> authoritarianism; 3) actual data on the numbers of incidents in contrast to
>>> the mundane, day-to-day operations of universities; 4) possible reasons as
>>> to why some people argue such extreme and hostile positions about academia
>>> based on their own limited experiences, as per Peterson's personal
>>> experiences (the problem of rampant over-generalization); or 5) the
>>> selective use of specific cases that only buttress one's argument and the
>>> complete ignorance or discounting of any examples that undermine or
>>> contradict one's positions (the problems of selection bias/confirmation
>>> bias).
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm reminded of an argument I had with a radical ideologue many years
>>> ago about why the U.S. intervened in Iraq under George H Bush and the
>>> justifications used on both sides of the political debate at the time.
>>> After about 45 minutes, I stopped and said something like: "You know, we've
>>> been going back and forth on this for a long time. Along the way, I've
>>> acknowledged points where I thought you made some convincing arguments and
>>> points where I felt you had better information that I needed to consider.
>>> Yet not once have you said anything about the merits of my own positions or
>>> the evidence I've used to make my arguments." His response? "I'm not
>>> interested in the terms of your arguments." Literally. I realized at that
>>> moment that I would always be at a disadvantage in intellectual discourse
>>> by trying to be open-minded and respectful as compared with those who
>>> simply believe what they believe, no matter what. And that's kinda what got
>>> be interested in studying human conflict, reconnecting with Gregg years
>>> later around his work, the justification hypothesis, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>> All that said, I find the whole thing a bit deflating. I'm someone who
>>> doesn't "know" the "truth," with any kind of capital "T". I look, listen,
>>> and learn. And then I try to fashion arguments, develop theories, propose
>>> ways to test those ideas, and then actually do the research. I then find
>>> out that I can be wrong. But all of this thinking and research takes time -
>>> and lots of "words." Like my emails! And the only light-hearted response
>>> I'll get - before being attacked for being part of the left-wing liberal
>>> re-education camps supported by American (or Canadian) tax dollars - is
>>> that "Joe, you write too many words." And I'm reminded of Mozart's
>>> interaction with the King and his complaint about Mozart's latest
>>> masterpiece. There's no critique of the *substance* of the music; there
>>> are simply "too many notes". And you've probably read too many notes or
>>> letters of mind already, but I welcome constructive suggestions for how we
>>> can move forward with people who like to reduce complex issues and
>>> well-reasoned arguments to a matter of "too many notes"!
>>>
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DdCud8H7z7vU&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=qPHmE6UfrhQ-sEJoH3owvxFgGAj8UNwiW0IT3PBd7xU&s=h__rB8WqtkA4QQbcD9oaiy3h7b5Le6aeuvX0Gjz0K7g&e=
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DdCud8H7z7vU&d=DwMF-w&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=fklNA-BMxfZL6YIlBXpP5zf-E6VB5KQ1emRU-qGlHo8&s=a5UfRIYsAob9N6Nxn2fWNx28NTXFvsOeiW5C6a9vZIo&e=>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DdCud8H7z7vU&d=DwMF-w&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=fklNA-BMxfZL6YIlBXpP5zf-E6VB5KQ1emRU-qGlHo8&s=a5UfRIYsAob9N6Nxn2fWNx28NTXFvsOeiW5C6a9vZIo&e=>
>>> Amadeus - "There are simply too many notes."
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DdCud8H7z7vU&d=DwMF-w&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=fklNA-BMxfZL6YIlBXpP5zf-E6VB5KQ1emRU-qGlHo8&s=a5UfRIYsAob9N6Nxn2fWNx28NTXFvsOeiW5C6a9vZIo&e=>
>>> www.youtube.com
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.youtube.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=swIb-WDXs9mL3I2DiuUkFIVczWS6BpV9GpCD1TFEuZo&s=lDjpuY5-Ng0TdWGa1qPflFzTFRce-7F4utsAScIsfjg&e=>
>>> "Just cut a few and it'll be perfect." "Which few did you have in mind?"
>>> A scene from my favorite movie of all time.
>>>
>>> My best to one and all, -Joe
>>>
>>>
>>> Dr. Joseph H. Michalski
>>>
>>> Acting Academic Dean/Associate Academic Dean
>>>
>>> King’s University College at Western University
>>>
>>> 266 Epworth Avenue
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__maps.google.com_-3Fq-3D266-2BEpworth-2BAvenue-2B-250D-250A-2BLondon-2C-2BOntario-2C-2BCanada-2B-2BN6A-2B2M3-26entry-3Dgmail-26source-3Dg&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=swIb-WDXs9mL3I2DiuUkFIVczWS6BpV9GpCD1TFEuZo&s=8xJV8i7cVQad5nfexFjjQLuBoAOF60W0L9yBUTCYbFE&e=>
>>>
>>> London, Ontario, Canada
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__maps.google.com_-3Fq-3D266-2BEpworth-2BAvenue-2B-250D-250A-2BLondon-2C-2BOntario-2C-2BCanada-2B-2BN6A-2B2M3-26entry-3Dgmail-26source-3Dg&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=swIb-WDXs9mL3I2DiuUkFIVczWS6BpV9GpCD1TFEuZo&s=8xJV8i7cVQad5nfexFjjQLuBoAOF60W0L9yBUTCYbFE&e=>
>>>
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__maps.google.com_-3Fq-3D266-2BEpworth-2BAvenue-2B-250D-250A-2BLondon-2C-2BOntario-2C-2BCanada-2B-2B-25C2-25A0-2BN6A-2B2M3-26entry-3Dgmail-26source-3Dg&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=qPHmE6UfrhQ-sEJoH3owvxFgGAj8UNwiW0IT3PBd7xU&s=WmBuMioTRbELNYaplI5Ueupudmf2xkVTJtAsH6O5lH8&e=>N6A
>>> 2M3
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__maps.google.com_-3Fq-3D266-2BEpworth-2BAvenue-2B-250D-250A-2BLondon-2C-2BOntario-2C-2BCanada-2B-2BN6A-2B2M3-26entry-3Dgmail-26source-3Dg&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=swIb-WDXs9mL3I2DiuUkFIVczWS6BpV9GpCD1TFEuZo&s=8xJV8i7cVQad5nfexFjjQLuBoAOF60W0L9yBUTCYbFE&e=>
>>>
>>> Tel: (519) 433-3491, ext. 4439
>>>
>>> Fax: (519) 433-0353
>>>
>>> Email: [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>> ______________________
>>>
>>> *ei*π + 1 = 0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* tree of knowledge system discussion <
>>> [log in to unmask]> on behalf of Chance McDermott <
>>> [log in to unmask]>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 12, 2018 3:29 PM
>>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>>> *Subject:* Re: Are We All Nutcases?
>>>
>>> Joe, that was an awesome piece to read!
>>>
>>> Below is a visualization of how I experience what you wrote about, only
>>> replace the physical diseases with individual and group justifications, and
>>> Mr. Burns himself is the world situation.
>>>
>>> "Are you saying I'm *indestructible*?"
>>>
>>> "No, no! And even a slight breeze could..."
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3F&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=qPHmE6UfrhQ-sEJoH3owvxFgGAj8UNwiW0IT3PBd7xU&s=tUArnaEqEUTlBdQhZHUVJxVFSfvPr3-IlUiVoUMX3dc&e= v=gmBj8r1-fDo
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DgmBj8r1-2DfDo&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=G_N7oydzTqNuHPDZSiCHq7l9xHk0iMFD7Zu6e9zGvgE&s=8USe0boP2q06WWzuotDlvPsLkzXwzRlhcaXpi2bRLPM&e=>
>>>
>>> I echo John's insightful post regarding the commodification of the
>>> University system.
>>>
>>> -Chance
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 8:04 AM, JOHN TORDAY <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Joe and TOKers, As a working scientist over the course of the last
>>> half century I can attest to the wheels falling off in the wake of the
>>> Bayh-Dole Act, which not only leveled the playing field between Academic
>>> Research and Industry, but leveled the pursuit of knowledge in biomedical
>>> research. Allowing for the patenting of discoveries in institutions of
>>> higher learning monetized the thought process in our nation's academic
>>> laboratories, undermining the mission of discovery. That was just one of
>>> many efforts to hold institutions to a 'bottom-line' standard fostered by
>>> the Republican Party, literally slicing and dicing free thought. So I am no
>>> social scientist, but I am asking openly whether this is the cause of what
>>> is going on on college and University campuses? Because if we can identify
>>> the root causes, we may be able to put the evil genie back in the bottle,
>>> or at least address the problem and provide opposition, as Joe is asking
>>> for, and re-embrace thinking over action, mutual respect over destructive
>>> behavior.
>>>
>>> The mere fact that the 'wars' that are going on on campuses are about
>>> symptoms, not causes, is very troubling. We no longer seem interested in
>>> analysis as the first step, going right for the intellectual 'jugular'
>>> instead.
>>>
>>> I have been participating in the TOK because of my own insights to the
>>> evolution of physiology and consciousness, which derive from a novel way of
>>> approaching the question of evolution (see attached). I must admit that
>>> deviating from the 'belief' in Darwinism has been challenging, but it is,
>>> IMHO, emblematic of what Joe is addressing.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 5:10 AM, Joseph Michalski <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Colleagues:
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm the youngest of six children, from a rather conservative family in
>>> Virginia. Full disclosure: all 5 of my older siblings and my almost
>>> 90-year-old mother voted for Trump. I'll come back to this.
>>>
>>>
>>> In thinking about Gregg's paper on groupthink and the example of the
>>> dynamics of his own university, I can't help but think about similar
>>> dynamics on the right. The psychologists on this list know better than I,
>>> but the fundamental processes that are operating almost certainly apply
>>> equally that produce extreme choices as a result of the group members
>>> interacting with each other in their own echo chamber. The sound
>>> reverberates and only grows louder (metaphorically, if not literally). It
>>> shouldn't matter in the least what the underlying ideology or even general
>>> idea might be that's being disputed. I'm thinking of the scene from the old
>>> movie West Side Story when we see the Jets meeting to decide what they
>>> think the rules should be for the proposed rumble - and how quickly the
>>> issue escalates to an evermore violent proposal.
>>>
>>>
>>> Interestingly, two of my older brothers (educated at UVA and JMU) are
>>> far to the right on the political spectrum and highly critical of higher
>>> education. They gleefully sent me the following Jordan Peterson video to
>>> support their argument that universities these days are essentially
>>> "liberal reeducation camps":
>>>
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.prageru.com_videos&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=qPHmE6UfrhQ-sEJoH3owvxFgGAj8UNwiW0IT3PBd7xU&s=KPyN3ULexPocn7HXIEJiRQAGDP9qAHzpVfOXOJBhv5c&e= /dangerous-people-are-teaching -your-kids
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.prageru.com_videos_dangerous-2Dpeople-2Dare-2Dteaching-2Dyour-2Dkids&d=DwMF-w&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=fn6v73F4DPo9zMbccmGMrPzJqANE605L3n__V4l5orM&s=KY4SVt0LTtrCqNDi3K1IblxXlMhwX9edD64gjFrRNl0&e=>
>>>
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.prageru.com_videos_dangerous-2Dpeople-2Dare-2Dteaching-2Dyour-2Dkids&d=DwMF-w&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=fn6v73F4DPo9zMbccmGMrPzJqANE605L3n__V4l5orM&s=KY4SVt0LTtrCqNDi3K1IblxXlMhwX9edD64gjFrRNl0&e=>
>>> Dangerous People Are Teaching Your Kids
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.prageru.com_videos_dangerous-2Dpeople-2Dare-2Dteaching-2Dyour-2Dkids&d=DwMF-w&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=fn6v73F4DPo9zMbccmGMrPzJqANE605L3n__V4l5orM&s=KY4SVt0LTtrCqNDi3K1IblxXlMhwX9edD64gjFrRNl0&e=>
>>> www.prageru.com
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.prageru.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=e2CVMjon_2Tp6DNDL5UZU835I9LFs5hsF8JOgsX6CvU&s=jBbWkfV6pJk-SHKjarMP1sCx8KeKgyNHtaAVDW_6WIY&e=>
>>> Dangerous people are filling the heads of young people with dangerous
>>> nonsense. Who are these people? They are what Jordan Peterson calls “the
>>> post-modernists:” neo-Marxist professors who dominate our colleges and
>>> universities. And here’s the worst part: we are financing these nihilists
>>> with tax dollars, alumni gifts and tuition payments. Time to wise up.
>>>
>>> In response, I tried a conciliatory approach. I acknowledged that there
>>> are indeed post-modernists and radical Marxists in the university - and
>>> some of them are certainly activists & certainly fit Peterson's
>>> characterization. I mentioned something about normal distributions and how
>>> within any organization or institution (universities, businesses, sports
>>> clubs, politics, etc.), you're bound to find extremists in terms of certain
>>> characteristics, traits, or beliefs at the tail ends of the distributions.
>>> But most of the area under the curve falls in between.
>>>
>>>
>>> I then pointed out that what tends to make the news are the most extreme
>>> examples of behavior, such as the 2017 Berkeley protest or the Middlebury
>>> response to Charles Murray. What's NOT newsworthy, however, are the
>>> countless thousands of speeches, public lectures, sponsored debates, etc.
>>> that occur regularly across universities that go off without incident (yes,
>>> more leftist, but certainly many right-wing sponsored events too). But the
>>> critique is that the *dominant narrative* is one of left-wing extremism
>>> and that we are all complicit as members of the academy of undermining
>>> Western civilization, etc., etc.
>>>
>>>
>>> So, to combat that thinking, I then drew an analogy with my own work on
>>> terrorism. I pointed out that by any reasonable definition, there have been
>>> various terrorist attacks in the U.S. since 9/11. This is something, like
>>> homicide, for which we have pretty good data. To be sure, there's some
>>> debate about what constitutes "terrorism," but let's just focus on
>>> politically-motivated, indiscriminate mass killings of civilians or
>>> non-combatants. Does that happen in the U.S.? Absolutely. Is it horrific
>>> every time it happens? Of course. But, most people do not seem to know that
>>> the last 10 years have seen the *lowest* number of terrorist incidents
>>> in the U.S. for a 10-year period than in any other decade previously dating
>>> back to 1970 (that's the earliest year for which we have reasonably
>>> reliable, comprehensive data). Even fewer know that there were fewer deaths
>>> to U.S. citizens on American soil due to terrorism between 2006-2015 than
>>> there were deaths due to lightning strikes over that same period. And yet a
>>> 2016 national poll by Pew found that fears about terrorism were two of the
>>> top four fears that Americans cited.
>>>
>>>
>>> My point was simply that there are indeed extreme examples of
>>> intolerance and violence - and these certainly should be reported. On the
>>> other hand, we need to be careful to understand that these are the extremes
>>> and *not* the norms. Yet for staunch believers, like my brothers, they
>>> only look for confirmatory evidence and absolutely refuse to entertain any
>>> notion that they might be misinformed about what's really happening on
>>> college campuses. They know, because they've seen the news reports on Fox
>>> and, even more powerfully, from watching Prager U videos like the one I've
>>> included. Can you spell "groupthink"?
>>>
>>>
>>> Anyway, my point to this group is that I'm a pretty open-minded,
>>> understanding, and forgiving individual who happens to love science. I
>>> listen to my brothers and try to understand their perspective, but then,
>>> as with any issue like higher education, I share some different
>>> perspectives and evidence intended to show them that the issues are more
>>> nuanced and there's a lot of basically routine, institutionalized and,
>>> quite frankly, corporatist stuff that we do on an everyday basis. Heck,
>>> I've spent at least 100 times more time in committee meetings dealing with
>>> enrollment issues, state (provincial) funding, tuition fees, budgets,
>>> capital fundraising campaigns, and student disciplinary issues (e.g.,
>>> plagiarism) than I have responding to unruly, disruptive, radical protest
>>> movements on campus. But that's all they see. And when I try to point all
>>> this out, they merely characterize me as a left-wing liberal defending our
>>> radical universities. So, if I cannot make any inroads with my brothers (I
>>> always try to acknowledge where I agree with them), my question is how can
>>> we possibly create long-term change, engage in constructive dialogue, and
>>> salvage the notion of a "liberal education" in the best sense of that term
>>> - where both liberals and conservatives could agree on the core values? I
>>> mean, sheesh, I never thought of myself as a "dangerous person" or my
>>> colleagues as "dangerous people" teaching our kids. But a great many
>>> people, including my brothers, think that's *exactly* the way things
>>> are in universities, i.e., we're all a bunch of nutcases espousing
>>> "dangerous nonsense."
>>>
>>>
>>> Yours kindly, -Joe
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dr. Joseph H. Michalski
>>>
>>> Acting Academic Dean/Associate Academic Dean
>>>
>>> King’s University College at Western University
>>>
>>> 266 Epworth Avenue
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__maps.google.com_-3Fq-3D266-2BEpworth-2BAvenue-2B-250D-250A-2BLondon-2C-2BOntario-2C-2BCanada-2B-2BN6A-2B2M3-26entry-3Dgmail-26source-3Dg&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=e2CVMjon_2Tp6DNDL5UZU835I9LFs5hsF8JOgsX6CvU&s=ebPZfP1hkgO0Bj__pUdZI_doRHa2CZWDgP5amSgSSBQ&e=>
>>>
>>> London, Ontario, Canada
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__maps.google.com_-3Fq-3D266-2BEpworth-2BAvenue-2B-250D-250A-2BLondon-2C-2BOntario-2C-2BCanada-2B-2BN6A-2B2M3-26entry-3Dgmail-26source-3Dg&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=e2CVMjon_2Tp6DNDL5UZU835I9LFs5hsF8JOgsX6CvU&s=ebPZfP1hkgO0Bj__pUdZI_doRHa2CZWDgP5amSgSSBQ&e=>
>>>
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__maps.google.com_-3Fq-3D266-250D-250A-2BEpworth-2BAvenue-2B-250D-250A-2BLondon-2C-250D-250A-2BOntario-2C-2BCanada-2B-2B-25C2-25A0-2BN6A-250D-250A-2B2M3-26entry-3Dgmail-26source-3Dg&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=qPHmE6UfrhQ-sEJoH3owvxFgGAj8UNwiW0IT3PBd7xU&s=bJfwWOXxy4ElhY-ZnlBQGJ_4pbwCtOzzqvND8oQpmj0&e=>N6A
>>> 2M3
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__maps.google.com_-3Fq-3D266-2BEpworth-2BAvenue-2B-250D-250A-2BLondon-2C-2BOntario-2C-2BCanada-2B-2BN6A-2B2M3-26entry-3Dgmail-26source-3Dg&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=e2CVMjon_2Tp6DNDL5UZU835I9LFs5hsF8JOgsX6CvU&s=ebPZfP1hkgO0Bj__pUdZI_doRHa2CZWDgP5amSgSSBQ&e=>
>>>
>>> Tel: (519) 433-3491, ext. 4439
>>>
>>> Fax: (519) 433-0353
>>>
>>> Email: [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>> ______________________
>>>
>>> *ei*π + 1 = 0
>>>
>>> ############################
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:TOK-SOCIETY-L-SIGNOFF-R
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> or click the
>>> following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bi
>>> n/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1
>>> <http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1>
>>>
>>>
>>> ############################
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:TOK-SOCIETY-L-SIGNOFF-
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> or click the
>>> following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-
>>> bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A= 1
>>> <http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1>
>>>
>>>
>>> ############################
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to:
>>> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the
>>> following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bi
>>> n/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1
>>> ############################
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to:
>>> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the
>>> following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bi
>>> n/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1
>>> ############################
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to:
>>> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the
>>> following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bi
>>> n/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1
>>> ############################
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to:
>>> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the
>>> following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bi
>>> n/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1
>>>
>>
>> ############################
>>
>> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to:
>> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the
>> following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bi
>> n/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1
>>
>
>

############################

To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list:
write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]
or click the following link:
http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1