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October 2015

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Subject:
From:
Bernie Goltermann <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Bernie Goltermann <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Fri, 16 Oct 2015 13:58:25 +0000
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Regarding " black pieces (non-penalty pieces) still counted (against you) if they're in safety/base? Or is getting them to the landfill the only way to keep them from negatively impacting your score?"
I also see that it states under M04 – Sorting, Black bars are (bars score independently)... – Value 8 Per Bar part of a scoring Flower Box, or in their original Setup position.  "or in their original Setup position." seems to say if you don't touch the non-penalty black pieces, they don't count against you but for you. Is this right?

      From: VA-DC Referee Advisor <[log in to unmask]>
 To: [log in to unmask] 
 Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 4:14 PM
 Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Junk and Penalties
   
A Black Bar that ends up in Safety/Base may still be counted as negative points during scoring.  It will be counted for negative points unless it meets one of the requirements of M04 Sorting that say that it will be scored as positive points.

Steve Scherr
Virginia-DC FLL Referee Advisor

P.S.  Two of the four ways to have Black Bars scored for positive points won't be happening if they are in Safety....





On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 2:38 PM, Thomas (Tweeks) Weeks <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

I don't recall the wording just now..Are black pieces (non-penalty pieces) still counted (against you) if they're in safety/base? Or is getting them to the landfill the only way to keep them from negatively impacting your score?
Tweeks
From: First Lego League in Virginia and DC <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of VA-DC Referee Advisor <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 1:38 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Junk and Penalties As a referee, I have to be very precise in the words that I use.  There can be as many as 12 Black Bars that will score negative points.  You might consider them all penalties, but only 4 of them are officially Penalty objects.  What is the difference?  The Penalty objects have to stay on the mat, but the robot can try to do things with the other Black Bars to make them worth positive points.
Steve ScherrVirginia-DC FLL Referee Advisor

On Thursday, October 15, a team wrote:

What about the black bars which are part of mission models, like demolition and toybox. If team fails to put them in sorter or trashbin on east side of mat, will there be seprate penalty? Or at any given time team can have maximum 4 penalty.
Please clarify.
ThanksOn Oct 14, 2015 9:30 PM, "VA-DC Referee Advisor" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Yes, that's right.  See the "Penalties" description in the Missions   
   - Penalties– For each Penalty as described in RuleD09, the Ref will place one Black Bar on the Mat in a convenient out-of- the-way place, not to exceed four Bars. The Ref may shift them out of the Robot’s way as needed, but they must always stay in a negative scoring position. 
The referee will assess a maximum of four Interruption and Junk Penalties on the Robot and Equipment in a match. After the maximum of four Black Bars have been placed on the mat because of a Penalty, the team can rescue the Robot by an Interruption without any additional scoring penalty.  Models are still susceptible to being taken out of play because of an Interruption, or because of Stranding.
  The scoring value of each Black Bar placed as a penalty is Minus 8 per Bar, as described in M04, Sorting.  The bars are no longer in their original Setup position (which was off the mat with the Referee) and may not be moved into a Green Bin or the Landfill.
Steve ScherrVirginia-DC FLL Referee Advisor.

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