Personal opinion provided...

"*Can *you do that"? Yes, you can. Anything that is not specifically
disallowed in the setup, missions, rules and updates is allowed per the
rules.

The better question would be "*should *you do that"? Depends on your team
and how you intend to run your program. You will get differing opinions,
most of which will probably tell you no. For the tournaments, check out how
the team will be judged during the Robot Design judging by reading the
appropriate Rubric:
http://www.firstlegoleague.org/sites/default/files/Challenge/Combined%20Rubrics.pdf,
specifically, the design and innovation section. Your team might do
relatively poorly during the judging. More importantly, you might be
depriving your team the opportunity to be creative, explore and invent.
That, to me, is one of the best parts of FLL!

Best of Luck!
Bill Aucoin
[log in to unmask]



On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Larry Landsberg
<[log in to unmask]>wrote:

> So there is a Lego mindstorm builder app with instructions on it.
>
> Can we use these plans for the FLL tournament or does the robot need to be
> a unique design?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Larry Landsberg
>
>
> On Sep 19, 2013, at 11:52 PM, VA/DC Referee Advisor <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> For the Obstacles mission, the answer is:
> a)  Everything, including its entire vertical footprint, must be EAST of
> the WEST boundary line.
>
> Steve
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 11:37 PM, Tom Hafer <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>
>>  My question concerns the crossing of the line****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> What part of the robot must cross a given line:****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>>    1. everything including its entire vertical footprint****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>>    1. the entirety of the contact elements, ie the wheels / tracks****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>>    1. part of the contact elements, eg 1 wheel and half of the other****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>>    1. any wheel****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>>    1. something else****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> and the same questions regarding the rear wheels if present****
>>
>> ** **
>>  ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* First Lego League in Virginia and DC [mailto:
>> [log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *VA/DC Referee Advisor
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2013 11:05 PM
>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [VADCFLL-L] Obstacle Damage
>> ****
>>
>>  ** **
>>
>> Question:  When does a robot earn credit for entering one of the Obstacle
>> mission scoring regions?****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Answer:****
>>
>>   In order for the robot to earn points on the Obstacles mission, the
>> robot must have "crossed completely over the west line of the scoring
>> region, from the west only."****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>>   Per Rule 3, bullet 1, we must take this text literally whenever
>> possible.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>>   The literal meaning is:  To earn points for entering an obstacle
>> scoring region, there must be a moment when no part of the robot is east of
>> the west boundary line of the scoring region (and all the other constraints
>> apply, as described in the mission and Update 11).  *******
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Question: If the robot has completely cleared the west line of the purple
>> region and is half way between the Purple region and the red region,  what
>> has it earned (for this attempt)? ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Answer:  Correct.  The robot would be credited for having reached the
>> purple scoring region, but would would not get credit (for this attempt)
>> for reaching the red scoring region.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Question:  If a robot crossed "completely over the line" into the purple
>> region and then got totally confused and went back over the obstacle to the
>> west, would it still be credited for having reached the purple region?***
>> *
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Answer:  Yes.  "Points given are permanent** even if the robot later
>> leaves .... the region."****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>>
>> Question:  Is the robot's score for the Obstacles mission the sum of the
>> point values for each region it entered?****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Answer:  No.  "Points are given only for the best result achieved."****
>>
>> This means that, when earned, the points for entering the Dark Green
>> region replace the points for entering the Dark Blue region, etc. etc. and
>> the points for entering the Red region replace the points for entering the
>> Purple region.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Steve Scherr****
>>
>> VA/DC FLL Referee Advisor****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Notes:****
>>
>> ** The points are only "permanent" until they are replaced by better
>> points for the mission.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *** "No part of the robot is east of the west boundary line" --  In FLL
>> terms, that means that the robot is "completely out" of the area east of
>> the line.  In other words, during an Obstacles mission attempt, as long as
>> the robot is still "in" the area east of the west boundary line, then it
>> has not "crossed completely over" the line.  ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I agree that the "completely crossed over" scoring condition isn't "being
>> in the area east of the line."  But it's equivalent to "not being in the
>> area east of the line,"  and that's how we'll check for when the scoring
>> conditions are satisfied.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Brian Hardy <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:****
>>
>> your comment ****
>>
>>   Referees will use the definition of "in" to evaluate whether any tiny
>> bit of the robot is "in" the area east of the colored line.  If so, then
>> the robot will not have crossed completely over the line.  Contact with the
>> mat is not important for "in". (That's important for "touching". )****
>>
>>  confuses me as "in" is not part of the scoring criteria. The only
>> criteria mentioned is that the robot must have "crossed completely over
>> the west line of the noted region, from the west only" (well, the update
>> also requires that all contact with the mat be south of the northern edge
>> of the obstacles). Being "in" an area east of the line is irrelevant to
>> scoring the obstacle mission. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I read all this to mean that "in" is not the operative word for the
>> obstacles mission (it's not used in the obstacle rules or updates) - its
>> important only that the robot has "completely crossed over the west line of
>> the noted region"). The pictures in the rules indicate that if even wires
>> extend over the line to the west, it has not "completely crossed over". *
>> ***
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> For the OP's question, that would mean that if the robot has completely
>> cleared the west line of the purple region and is half way between the
>> Purple region and the red region, it would score 23 points for the purple
>> zone, but would not get any points for the red obstacle region.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Am I also correct that if a robot crossed "completely over the line" into
>> the purple region and then got totally confused and went back over the
>> obstacle to the west - it would still score the 23 points?****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I do have one where I'm not so sure on scoring - does the team get
>> awarded points for EACH region or only for the farthest one reached? (i.e.
>> if totally over the western purple line, it would get 10+16+23=49 points or
>> just 23 for the purple region?****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Brian****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On Sep 19, 2013, at 1:21 PM, Stephen Scherr wrote:****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>>   The Obstacles mission is hard--that's one reason that teams get
>> multiple tries to accomplish it.****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> The key is Rule 37--In.  "In" has a very specific meaning for FLL****
>>
>>    - Red is "in," "into," or has "reached" Blue if any bit of Red is
>>    directly over or under Blue ****
>>    - To be "in" an area is to penetrate the volume over that area. ****
>>    - Barely "in" is considered "in" unless "completely "in" is required.*
>>    ***
>>    - Red can be "in" Blue without touching Blue..****
>>    - "Outside" is the opposite of "in" and means completely out. ****
>>
>>  I tell teams that a robot is "in" Base when a single molecule of the
>> robot is "in" Base.  The same applies here.  The word "completely" means
>> that every single molecule satisfies the scoring condition.****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Referees will use the definition of "in" to evaluate whether any tiny bit
>> of the robot is "in" the area east of the colored line.  If so, then the
>> robot will not have crossed completely over the line.  Contact with the mat
>> is not important for "in". (That's important for "touching". )****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> For your last case, "all of the robot" is defined--it is every bit of the
>> robot.  But the scoring condition does not require the robot to be
>> "completely in" the colored scoring region--it only requires that all of
>> the robot has "crossed completely over" the line (from the west).****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> [If that hint is too vague, look at Game Update 11--some parts of the
>> robot don't have to be "in" the scoring region for the robot to earn
>> points.]****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Steve Scherr****
>>
>> VA/DC FLL Referee Advisor****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> On Thursday, September 19, 2013, Tom Hafer wrote:****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>  Hey Steve –****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>>   ****
>>
>>     The obstacles challenge – the rule says The robot has crossed
>> completely over the west line of the noted region, from the west only.  I
>> think this needs some discussion. The robot often gets a bit skewed when
>> crossing the obstacles, so what does completely crossed over mean?
>> Specifically, what if some portion of the robot not in contact with the mat
>> is outside the colored zones? Next case, what if one of the tracks / wheels
>> does not cross the obstacle or half of the wheel crosses but the other half
>> is out. Last case, once the robot has crossed the line, what portion of the
>> robot has to be inside the zone: all of it (how defined?), the part in
>> contact with the mat, or just some of it? ****
>>
>>      ** **
>>   ------------------------------
>>
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>>
>
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