Harm? Wounding? Injury?
On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 11:48 AM Brent Allsop <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
> Hi John,
>
>
>
> “Perhaps is it blood?” for which “red” is a label for.
>
>
>
> You’re still not picking up on how this is sloppy thinking and sloppy
> definitions about physical qualities. Wouldn’t it be more accurate to
> state that red is a label for any physical surface that reflects, or emits
> “red” light? And, again, if you engineered a red green signal inverter in
> the retina, now your knowledge of the blood (or anything that reflects or
> emits red light) has a greenness quality. So, does this not prove that it
> isn’t ‘blood’ that has a physically causal redness (or greenness) quality?
>
>
>
> So, if “red” is a label for any physical surface that reflects or emits
> “red” light, which physical quality is “redness” a label for?
>
>
> Brent
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 3:43 AM JOHN TORDAY <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Brent and List, thanks Brent for your patience in trying to understand
>> how my 'take' on evolution differs from Darwin. And yes, your paraphrasing
>> is correct, so I hope that's helpful. And as for 'which quality is red a
>> label for' as I had said, perhaps it is blood? There is an article in the
>> literature that hypothesizes that color vision evolved from blood, which I
>> will try to find. John
>>
>> On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 10:15 PM Brent Allsop <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi John,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think I’m starting to better understand what you are saying. Let me
>>> see if I can repeat what you are talking about, to see if I’m starting to
>>> understand.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Darwinian evolution models only really model things like achieving more
>>> offspring. Whereas considering cell-cell communication in embryologic
>>> development as central better models homeostasis superimposed on
>>> phylogeny. This is a better way to understand the process of evolution.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I still have a question for you, about what you mean when you say: “perhaps
>>> we see *'red'* when we are writhing in pain because it references
>>> bleeding as a process related to pain”. I understand what you mean,
>>> abstractly. But I have no idea what you mean, qualitatively. In order to
>>> know what red means, qualitatively, you must tell me which physical quality
>>> it is a label for. Since you never do this, I can’t know what you mean,
>>> qualitatively, when you use the term *“red”.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So that is my question, which physical quality do you consider red to be
>>> a label for?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 6:10 AM JOHN TORDAY <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Gregg, Brent, Aeon and List, if I could just jump in here, much of
>>>> what is being said by all needs IMHO to be reconsidered in light of the
>>>> difference between descriptive and mechanistic Biology/Physiology. So for
>>>> example, semiotics is a description of what I have been referring to with
>>>> respect to the centrality of cell-cell communication in embryologic
>>>> development and homeostasis superimposed on phylogeny as the way to
>>>> understand the process of evolution. That's very different from Darwinian
>>>> evolution based on a reproductive strategy for more offspring, which is a
>>>> materialistic viewpoint. In terms of Brent's quest for answering the 'Hard
>>>> Question' of Qualia, I think the answer lies in the way I have recalibrated
>>>> Pleiotropy, the capacity of biology to recombine/repermute the same gene
>>>> for multiple purposes over the course of evolution. Up until now that
>>>> phenomenon has remained a fascinoma, but seen in the context of evolution,
>>>> it is explained by the pre-adaptational strategy of reutilizing genes under
>>>> duress as the most economical way of solving existential problems
>>>> evolutionarily. In the context of Qualia, perhaps we see 'red' when we are
>>>> writhing in pain because it references bleeding as a process related to
>>>> pain, the two processes being linked through common cellular-molecular
>>>> signaling mechanisms. As for Aeon, I fully ascribe to the idea that we need
>>>> to address how to re-synthesize philosophy and empiricism if I am correct
>>>> in thinking that we've gotten evolution 'backwards' and that the
>>>> unicellular state is the primary level of selection based on the emerging
>>>> knowledge of epigenetic inheritance. With the Best of Intentions. John
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 7:42 AM Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <
>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi List,
>>>>>
>>>>> A friend sent this essay in Aeon on the relationship between
>>>>> philosophy and science and the need to return to a natural philosophy
>>>>> approach:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aeon.co_essays_bring-2Dback-2Dscience-2Dand-2Dphilosophy-2Das-2Dnatural-2Dphilosophy-3Futm-5Fsource-3DAeon-2BNewsletter-26utm-5Fcampaign-3D16c95a1325-2DEMAIL-5FCAMPAIGN-5F2019-5F05-5F13-5F03-5F04-26utm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fterm-3D0-5F411a82e59d-2D16c95a1325-2D69915925&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=Ex2LfLJjyYGsVV6gc1-BiqHKorIq2jm2Y_DWIQYJVkU&s=PmNg-gB4nnttmMsIKTBJeU434E5BgwNR9nfTYT1SSVk&e=
>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aeon.co_essays_bring-2Dback-2Dscience-2Dand-2Dphilosophy-2Das-2Dnatural-2Dphilosophy-3Futm-5Fsource-3DAeon-2BNewsletter-26utm-5Fcampaign-3D16c95a1325-2DEMAIL-5FCAMPAIGN-5F2019-5F05-5F13-5F03-5F04-26utm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fterm-3D0-5F411a82e59d-2D16c95a1325-2D69915925&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=dFVdlOFuFfkQC0g6biXlvVLZsP2vJxZfvnsSXc39KVU&s=0_AzQ9yI47iQK9ucAwT5NR2XIcx2ABsrsNB05yuKWPY&e=>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I am on Maxwell’s Friends of Wisdom list as I became aware of his
>>>>> work several months ago. It is a similar, although also different vision
>>>>> for philosophy and science than the ToK System offers.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> G
>>>>>
>>>>> ___________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> Gregg Henriques, Ph.D.
>>>>> Professor
>>>>> Department of Graduate Psychology
>>>>> 216 Johnston Hall
>>>>> MSC 7401
>>>>> James Madison University
>>>>> Harrisonburg, VA 22807
>>>>> (540) 568-7857 (phone)
>>>>> (540) 568-4747 (fax)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Be that which enhances dignity and well-being with integrity.*
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out my Theory of Knowledge blog at Psychology Today at:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.psychologytoday.com_blog_theory-2Dknowledge&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=Ex2LfLJjyYGsVV6gc1-BiqHKorIq2jm2Y_DWIQYJVkU&s=8NoklSNDXWMbnbGMBBPi5ZqNwP5nL2PlixW504EZKtA&e=
>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.psychologytoday.com_blog_theory-2Dknowledge&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=dFVdlOFuFfkQC0g6biXlvVLZsP2vJxZfvnsSXc39KVU&s=hPnpDpg37-IlprEcDtCmrkgtNgPexNBHLnt_yDLVIXo&e=>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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