**Brace for long winded email**


I think I can relate to Lene's frustrations, if I understand them right.

There's no question that those involved on this and similar communities,
which are increasingly remote (accelerated by COVID), are some of the best
and brightest in doing what we do. That being said, as human beings we are
no better or worse than anyone else. The discussions are rich, the theories
highly qualified and coherent across disciplines to a degree never seen
before as new disciplines exponentially arrive seemingly every day.

Unfortunately, the wisdom realized in communities like ours have yet to be
actualized in the manifest physical world, the one that needs it the most
and the one that's dying.

As a fairly radical Advaitist, I do feel in my core that we dont need to do
anything to 'save the world' in terms of a willful course of action. As we
have seen across human history, these efforts (e.g., the Enlightenment)
have been forced to the point that we miss or ignore inconsistencies that
only make our collective human crises far worse in the long run. I dont
want to put words in Gregg's mouth, but I believe that's the very insight
he had with regards to the Enlightenment gap and the problem of psychology,
among other things.

Rather, anything that we do about these crises is what we do. Not in a
manner that suggests predetermined will, but one that suggests that the
universe will take care of itself as it always has, for all we know it is a
natural end to our species to destroy itself. I dont believe this to be the
ultimate case, I have faith that we will surpass this and that the Earth
will be saved. Researchers on climate change are definitely not wrong, but
like the rest of us they don't know what they don't know, so they betray
themselves by distrusting the Earth's ability to heal itself. It takes a
certain quality of ego to think that one knows how and is responsible for
saving the world. That notion alone shows one to take themselves as
separate from the world.

So I'll continue my usual harping that conceptual answers aren't going to
do the work needed to make the changes in the world we wish to see. How
many times have we talked about the difficulty of watering down these
metaphysically dense discussions such that the average person can
understand and be motivated to do something? We've made attempts to do this
but even in my own egoic feeling there's a stubbornness that others should
take the time to learn all these theories and words and get on board our
metaphysical ship. That will never happen.

Brandon N and others (I don't know who all is involved and to what extent)
are in the works of creating a nonprofit organization for much of the work
that we do here in our free time (which is especially taxing for those of
us working full time, building careers, learning to adult without an
assurance of a full life). That is the direction we need to go. We can have
brilliant discussions all day long but if the internet and all its data was
wiped from existence then the majority of the conceptual results we've
attained will be useless in that we have not instantiated their process
beyond dialectics.

Put simply, for all the passion and wisdom and love that everyone here has
for the world and others, why aren't we doing something about it at the
level something needs to be done? If models are anywhere close to correct
then we don't have enough time to save the world by changing the system via
proper alignment of truth claims with the social institutions that directly
influence the game of life.

If we are going to do something as a community then it needs to manifest
where the need is felt. We need to take it to the streets, grassroots. We
need to be making pitches to local politicians. We need to be arranging
peaceful protests, we need to be building an infrastructure that can
actually support the broken systems that were never going to last to begin
with because their foundations are mistakes such as the enlightenment gap.

Again, as an Advaitist, none of this matters to the ground of being itself.
It only matters to us, even the Earth itself outside of its self-regulatory
processes probably doesn't 'feel' any panic about its own destruction.
However, this may be one of those rare moments in human history where we
have to proselytize to a larger audience capable of mobilizing on the more
fundamental metaphysical notions we discuss.

Maybe we should be focusing more on what are the 7 +/-2 things we can
spread to actualize manifest change in the world. Right now we're just
talking about talking, thinking about thinking.

PS
I know many if not most of us are involved in some degree of work at the
level I speak of, I'm more suggesting that if we specifically are to make
those efforts they should be far more concentrated.

Regards,

Nicholas G. Lattanzio, Psy.D.

On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, 10:00 PM Rachel Hayden <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links
> or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is
> safe.
> ------------------------------
> Aydan ~
>
> The mapping you are doing there definitely has some intuitive appeal to
> me, in terms of the masculine "feeling" more focal, therefore linked to the
> Propositional, and the feminine having the "feeling" of Participatory whole
> - an embeddedness which can never totally be brought into focal awareness.
> That would also intuitively tie to the masculine as agentic, and feminine
> as communal (very simplistic take from an article by Gregg). Relevant to
> this discussion, Vervaeke and Esther Lightcap Meek recently did a really
> invigorating video
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DDj1Y9ppKluk&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=4jMF2AWLzE5gwvQ4ZvloTBedxM2zKxEX1KbmaGVW74A&s=bcbzoEiyMN3QY4mvEEKktRjns-qBQtTZm4DC-oqMj0U&e=>about
> ways of knowing vs. how all knowing is basically the same in this
> focal/background sense.
>
> I don't know Integral well enough to speak on that, but I think that the
> Procedural shouldn't really be considered much like a cluster of causal
> factoids - something like learning to ride a bike is just not a factual
> process in a way that Propositional Knowing is. I also think that the
> Perspectival as an individual perspective could just as easily map to the
> masculine in the sense that it could be linked to an individual, agentic
> purpose like the Hero's Journey (the term "agent-arena" relationship comes
> to mind here). Maybe that level is non-binary. 😄
>
> Just my two cents.... Like Adriana, I'd be curious to hear more.
>
> Best,
> Rachel
>
> On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 1:46 PM Aydan Connor <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
>> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links
>> or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is
>> safe.
>> ------------------------------
>> Both the Integral Stage and UTOKing conversations with Raven were so
>> alive and intriguing. Thanks for making them! It directly fed into a train
>> of thought I’ve been on about the 4Ps of knowing and the possibility that a
>> lack of Participatory knowing is at the heart of the meta crisis.
>>
>> First, does this map make sense? and is this echoed elsewhere?
>>
>> Feminine<—>Perspectival (singular relational)<—>Participatory (cluster of
>> causal relationships)
>>
>> Masculine<—>Propositional (singular factoid)<—>Procedural (cluster of
>> causal factoids)
>>
>> When any of these cyclically looping elements is thrown off course, the
>> others crumble and descend into entropy.
>>
>> (Side note: I wonder if contemplative practices are only so powerful as
>> practices tend towards combing at all levels of knowing, and so can assist
>> the practitioner in inhabiting the balance of a co-gendered Non-Duality
>> swimming in a sense of All-Encompassing One-ness.)
>>
>> I recently joined this Listserv—it has been really amazing to see these
>> emails.
>>
>> Thanks Everyone!
>> Aydan
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 27, 2022 at 17:07 Raven Connolly <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click
>>> links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the
>>> content is safe.
>>> ------------------------------
>>> Gregg! Thanks for sharing this, it was such a fun conversation and dove
>>> tailed very well with the discussion that we just had on UTOK.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Feb 26, 2022 at 6:54 PM Adriana Forte Naili <
>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click
>>>> links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the
>>>> content is safe.
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> I’m looking forward to listening to both conversations (Gregg’s and
>>>> Layman’s) thank you for posting.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 26 Feb 2022, at 02:07, Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For episode 18 of THE SEXUALITY SERIES, Layman is joined by bird-woman
>>>> hybrid, Philosopher Queen and Dark Renaissancer, Raven Connolly, to talk
>>>> about erotica; working with darker impulses and taboo; bravery to explore,
>>>> push boundaries, and constructively embrace conflict; the archetype of the
>>>> Fool; power literacy, and the social manipulation of desire; adult
>>>> development, sexual maturity, and Raven's own journey towards these things;
>>>> male-female polarity, and the interplay of the shell and the core;
>>>> embracing the Void; the moral and social consequences of unhinging
>>>> sexuality from reproduction, and reproduction from biology; gender roles,
>>>> and hard and soft power; the repeated refrain in Liminal Web communities of
>>>> "Where are the women?"; and much more.
>>>>
>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_LrypGuLoWHc&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=TGkBqYuN9xySP82rVPxvfuamye8bhwSKNfoan_DTdEg&s=5UG-vzVE-ag84f0WDTFh0vXHgPRxjkwbHJ-vp7h4hDI&e= 
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_LrypGuLoWHc&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=xCsYiTQs1rajM_tYKYt4svPwrgsBlDhK9IShK1ONPJQ&s=9sEwkt_xUYy1IayOKZIv2V9jyK0TDuNSsPG9BliwmuA&e=>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ___________________________________________
>>>> Gregg Henriques, Ph.D.
>>>> President of the Society for the Exploration of Psychotherapy
>>>> Integration (2022)
>>>> Professor
>>>> Department of Graduate Psychology
>>>> 216 Johnston Hall
>>>> MSC 7401
>>>> James Madison University
>>>> Harrisonburg, VA 22807
>>>> (540) 568-7857 (phone)
>>>> (540) 568-4747 (fax)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Be that which enhances dignity and well-being with integrity.*
>>>> Check out the Unified Theory Of Knowledge homepage at:
>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.unifiedtheoryofknowledge.org_&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=TGkBqYuN9xySP82rVPxvfuamye8bhwSKNfoan_DTdEg&s=XDZLmnPL9pHmu4fhvs-DWHwJXtRQTFck3ObSHMzCFWk&e= 
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.unifiedtheoryofknowledge.org_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=xCsYiTQs1rajM_tYKYt4svPwrgsBlDhK9IShK1ONPJQ&s=qameM4T8-bP4dA9XelRLDMFXrBeLCQ_TwZaMJFfUlhQ&e=>
>>>>
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