This is very cool!  It makes me wonder about these mathematical concepts.
Outside of that, a generalizable and comprehensible organizing frame would
make it easier to behave adaptively, thus energy and behavior activating
and engaging a human-knower "overlay" of the energy flow being
conceptualized by self and and potentially third-party others as "wise"
behavior.

-Chance

On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 6:47 AM Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Nice follow here, Chance.
>
>
>
> To roll this concept a little further along, I was listening to this Sean
> Carroll podcast giving
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.edwardslingerland.com_talks-2Dinterviews_test-2Dtitle-2Dtest-2D7ldt5-2Ddn8sc-2Dpkdbw&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=xBrW4kI8fvPGmg8unsEW75nOFRgEbxYlKioK-kqf2t4&s=VdJBQeFRb4ZnIqSluzwSs0cs9tJuurHJF8dZp894WoI&e= >
> aa overview of “wu wei,” which is the Chinese concept of “effortless
> action,” which I found lining up very nicely with both BIT and how I
> arrived at and experienced the concept of  “wisdom energy” last year, which
> was represented by flipping the coin from data to wisdom…
>
> This was when I placed the coin in the Riemann Sphere
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Riemann-5Fsphere&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=xBrW4kI8fvPGmg8unsEW75nOFRgEbxYlKioK-kqf2t4&s=3Y4nb6wWhT5K5KOY3ul5yXBoSm7xNvKBVp_my9XsM2s&e= >, which allowed it to align
> even better with the ToK System, and the Garden. The reason was that the
> added dimension could be interpreted as both the “real
> potential-into-kinetic energy” on the x axis that stretched from the Big
> Bang (absolute largest) to the quantum present of action (absolute
> smallest) and stretched on the vertical “imaginal” y-axis that ranged from
> the quantum digit of measured behavior (smallest digit of information) up
> to the Elephant Sun God (the imaginal absolute).
>
>
>
> The rotating vacillation between the two gave me the “Energy by Wisdom”
> alignment with, well, essentially no effort.
>
> And, I thought that was cool.
>
>
> Best,
> Gregg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* theory of knowledge society discussion <
> [log in to unmask]> *On Behalf Of *Chance McDermott
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 14, 2021 4:39 PM
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* Re: TOK Blog on Social Influence and Relational Value
>
>
>
> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links
> or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is
> safe.
> ------------------------------
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> Higher relational value for less effort also fits with behavioral
> investment theory (BIT).  It is a reinforcing formula in "authentic" social
> interactions when both parties are spending less energy filtering their
> expressed communication and spending less time decoding the filtered
> messages of others.  Depending on the justification dynamics in play,
> long-term effects and habituations will vary.
>
>
>
> -Chance
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 9:28 AM Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Right. And, to fully understand this, at least from a UTOK perspective, we
> need to add Justification Systems Theory
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.unifiedtheoryofknowledge.org_8-2Dkey-2Dideas_justification-2Dsystems-2Dtheory&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=zb_rB6lnTIpH7HvErKOhS75L33OtPUfpfAN2uCOC64g&s=HxtFBzrF8A7n1kfvWemv6V03JheOdiGDPXIbbPjfkkg&e=>
> and the Culture Person plane of existence.
>
>
>
> This is needed to understand “counter cultural” trends, that attempt to
> buck or invert the conventional justification narrative, which is often how
> “that is bad” becomes cool.
>
>
>
> G
>
>
>
> *From:* theory of knowledge society discussion <
> [log in to unmask]> *On Behalf Of *Alex Ebert
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 14, 2021 10:22 AM
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* Re: TOK Blog on Social Influence and Relational Value
>
>
>
> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links
> or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is
> safe.
> ------------------------------
>
> Nice,
>
> Got it.
>
>
>
> To press a touch further - I think “sadness/depression” can find their way
> to *high* relational value as such.
>
>
>
> Where low relational value *itself* is perceived as high relational value
> by the group in antilogy, which inversion of value then reinforces low
> relational behavior *as* independence.
>
>
>
> The self immolative act of taking one’s power back through suicidal
> behavior, for instance, *is*, as you point out, an act of independence -
> but it is also genuinely depressive.
>
>
>
> So if this info graphic were a sphere (obviously impossible here), perhaps
> we may be able to trace around the backside of sadness and up to high
> relational value.
>
>
>
> Interesting stuff!
>
>
>
> Ebert
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Nov 14, 2021, at 8:43 AM, Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Thanks, Alex.
>
>
>
> I agree. The basic interpretation for this comes from the Influence
> Matrix’s green line, which is the autonomy dependency axis and can be
> framed most basically as *freedom from influence*. (the article only
> focused on explicating the dynamics of the black line) Those who are free
> from the influence of the crowd signal an inner strength and creative
> capacity that can be very alluring, if done in a, well, cool way.
>
> <image001.png>
>
>
> Best,
> Gregg
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* theory of knowledge society discussion <
> [log in to unmask]> *On Behalf Of *Alex Ebert
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 14, 2021 9:25 AM
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* Re: TOK Blog on Social Influence and Relational Value
>
>
>
> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links
> or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is
> safe.
> ------------------------------
>
> Dear all,
>
>
>
> Briefly, something to add from my studies of cool, is that Social
> affluence can be effectuated vis-à-vis presentations of something that
> might look like an inverted variation of the infograph  that Gregg presents
> in the article.  Cool allows for antilogy (upside down crosses and face
> tattoos, etc., heroin chic - even depression and unhappiness itself, etc)
> and contranyms (bad, sick, gnarly, based, wicked and nasty etc all mean
> some variation of “excellent!”) to drive up one’s social status.
>
>
>
> The affect is “whoa that person doesn’t give a fuck - how *cool*!”
>
>
>
> Through mimetic desire, these become viral affectations.  For those of you
> growing up in the 90s, think of all of the shoe gazing Kurt Cobain kids
> posturing heroin or today, all of the emo rap kids posturing pills.
>
>
>
> Externalizations of happiness, for instance can *lower* status and
> influence - while antipathy can raise it.
>
>
>
> You likely see this even in your own professional lives – over-using
> exclamation marks being the most famous example of ruining one’s esteem.
>
>
>
> Hi!!!
>
>
>
> Yet what if you really are excited to talk to someone? You suppress the
> punctuation so as to not lose esteem? How is that integrity?
>
>
>
> Of course, these suppressive status affectations end up affecting the
> spirit of the poser - we become what we pretend to be.
>
>
>
> All the best!
>
>
>
> Ebert
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Nov 14, 2021, at 6:33 AM, Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Thanks, Ali.
>
>
>
> Here is one issue with social media. Can one *really* be known and valued
> via Instagram or TiK Tok? I doubt it. Think about how different that kind
> of relationship is from oral indigenous relationships (i.e., real, face to
> face, back and forth dialogue and participation in activities together in
> the world). Instead, what is actually going on is one way broadcasting that
> is regulated by social influence markers, such as likes or clicks or
> watches and general comments. Thus, social media itself is the wrong kind
> of forum for the known and valued processes we are structured for.
>
>
>
> I will say that I think zoom is qualitatively better. Although you are not
> with the person, you can have real, authentic relationships on zoom. I have
> never met John Vervaeke or Mike Mascolo in person, but I believe I have an
> authentic relationships with both of them, and many, many other people. So,
> the short answer is definitely yes, you can seek to be known and valued by
> a less than ideal group which will have consequences, but more to the
> point, the structure of the way we have developed our kids relationships is
> potentially disastrous.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Gregg
>
>
>
> *From:* theory of knowledge society discussion <
> [log in to unmask]> *On Behalf Of *Alexis Kenny
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 13, 2021 6:28 PM
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* Re: TOK Blog on Social Influence and Relational Value
>
>
>
> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links
> or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is
> safe.
> ------------------------------
>
> Gregg,
>
>
>
> This is a great piece! Thanks for sharing!
>
>
>
> In reading the last paragraph of your blog, I wondered...what happens when
> people don't look for being known and valued by the "right" people? For
> example, if teens are preoccupied with broad social acceptance (likely via
> a virtual / nebulous community (clearly making an assumption here)), is
> their pursuit of being known and valued doomed from the get-go?
>
>
>
> As a follow-up question...even if these teens thought they were known and
> valued by this group (through likes, followers, etc.) would this sense of
> acceptance satisfy their core needs at any meaningful, sustainable level?
>
>
>
> Would welcome your (or anyone else's) responses!
>
>
>
> Thanks for the food for thought,
>
>
>
> Ali
>
>
>
> El vie, 12 de nov. de 2021 a la(s) 11:44, Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx (
> [log in to unmask]) escribió:
>
> Hi Folks,
>
>   I put this up today. FWIW, I have found that the difference between
> social influence and relational value is likely one of the keys to
> effecting a wise cultural shift. It has come up in many conversations and
> was salient in my exchange last with Forrest Landry, which prompted me to
> put this out there:
>
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.psychologytoday.com_us_blog_theory-2Dknowledge_202111_social-2Dinfluence-2Dversus-2Drelational-2Dvalue&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=xBrW4kI8fvPGmg8unsEW75nOFRgEbxYlKioK-kqf2t4&s=sKdotBArhAu2Bhbm-bb2bMJuoF7Mfc6Esnp2nTmmOfo&e= 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.psychologytoday.com_us_blog_theory-2Dknowledge_202111_social-2Dinfluence-2Dversus-2Drelational-2Dvalue&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=27aZqxKMZwM-Xsv5aMH_fB3ev1u3om9Vf4toENRUKPk&s=zK2NcVEjGFKLifx-Ft-BDyP6c7-Sa7_giWN6w40v_A4&e=>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________
>
> Gregg Henriques, Ph.D.
> Professor
> Department of Graduate Psychology
> 216 Johnston Hall
> MSC 7401
> James Madison University
> Harrisonburg, VA 22807
> (540) 568-7857 (phone)
> (540) 568-4747 (fax)
>
>
> *Be that which enhances dignity and well-being with integrity.*
>
> Check out the Unified Theory Of Knowledge homepage at:
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.unifiedtheoryofknowledge.org_&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=xBrW4kI8fvPGmg8unsEW75nOFRgEbxYlKioK-kqf2t4&s=KueSxWl4mZGpxOg2u9TuwYzjT-n6gERiauII9Wd2t8o&e= 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.unifiedtheoryofknowledge.org_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=27aZqxKMZwM-Xsv5aMH_fB3ev1u3om9Vf4toENRUKPk&s=dS51aR2zlbKiAUO-hHPJBOGmEt0PV2MziV65kUkmBYw&e=>
>
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> --
>
> *Alexis (Ali) Kenny*, PsyD, LP
>
> Staff Psychologist
>
> *LeaderWise
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.leaderwise.org_ali-2Dkenny&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=27aZqxKMZwM-Xsv5aMH_fB3ev1u3om9Vf4toENRUKPk&s=SMz5tDLVMOehKai31oeot9dSaOo6HNulHN52opbVwT4&e=>*
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